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	<title>Comments on: OS X, Ubuntu and Other Fun Stuff</title>
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	<link>http://theappslab.com/2008/07/29/os-x-ubuntu-and-other-fun-stuff/</link>
	<description>Driving Innovation</description>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://theappslab.com/2008/07/29/os-x-ubuntu-and-other-fun-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-4702</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 19:44:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oracleappslab.com/?p=1054#comment-4702</guid>
		<description>Very true, and with Apple, you don&#039;t have to inspect the BIOS to get the real story about what&#039;s under the hood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very true, and with Apple, you don&#39;t have to inspect the BIOS to get the real story about what&#39;s under the hood.</p>
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		<title>By: Warren Baird</title>
		<link>http://theappslab.com/2008/07/29/os-x-ubuntu-and-other-fun-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-4701</link>
		<dc:creator>Warren Baird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 19:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oracleappslab.com/?p=1054#comment-4701</guid>
		<description>The problem with PC&#039;s is that the &quot;same hardware&quot; isn&#039;t.   My laptop is a dell d410, and when I was offered it through work, I checked the linux hardware compatibility pages, and it was listed as having a fully supported wireless chipset (Don&#039;t remember if it was intel or atheros).   &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;When I got mine however, it had a broadcom chipset, so I had months of futzing with it before I could get wireless working reliably.  Fortunately Broadcom support has improved a lot since then.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The problem is that unless you roll your own hardware, you generally have no idea what mobo, chipset, video, etc you are going to get if you go with a big name box...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;IMO that&#039;s one of the advantages of Apple - they don&#039;t just shove whatever&#039;s cheapest that week in the box, you get very consistent hardware from machine to machine...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with PC&#39;s is that the &#8220;same hardware&#8221; isn&#39;t.   My laptop is a dell d410, and when I was offered it through work, I checked the linux hardware compatibility pages, and it was listed as having a fully supported wireless chipset (Don&#39;t remember if it was intel or atheros).   </p>
<p>When I got mine however, it had a broadcom chipset, so I had months of futzing with it before I could get wireless working reliably.  Fortunately Broadcom support has improved a lot since then.</p>
<p>The problem is that unless you roll your own hardware, you generally have no idea what mobo, chipset, video, etc you are going to get if you go with a big name box&#8230;</p>
<p>IMO that&#39;s one of the advantages of Apple &#8211; they don&#39;t just shove whatever&#39;s cheapest that week in the box, you get very consistent hardware from machine to machine&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://theappslab.com/2008/07/29/os-x-ubuntu-and-other-fun-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-4700</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oracleappslab.com/?p=1054#comment-4700</guid>
		<description>Rich and I have proven that even w/the same hardware, you can&#039;t always assume everything works the same, e.g. Compiz.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Of course, that&#039;s possibly a user error thing on my part too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rich and I have proven that even w/the same hardware, you can&#39;t always assume everything works the same, e.g. Compiz.</p>
<p>Of course, that&#39;s possibly a user error thing on my part too.</p>
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		<title>By: assaf</title>
		<link>http://theappslab.com/2008/07/29/os-x-ubuntu-and-other-fun-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-4699</link>
		<dc:creator>assaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 07:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oracleappslab.com/?p=1054#comment-4699</guid>
		<description>I do have to say in all fairness that I wasn&#039;t using a Dell or a ThinkPad, and judging by my coworkers, life is easier if you stick with the popular models.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Stuff that has worked for a while (i.e. for older models, I have a couple at home delegate to server) never broke.  It&#039;s only recent models I had problem with, and with the less common or recently introduced components.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Suspend/resume was on again, off again, on again, off again, probably because the new Intel chipset.  So while the cycles were very quick, over the course of a year you get the same down time as Vista.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It was definitely worse than OS X, which just works, but Apple doesn&#039;t give you much of choice in hardware, and I did exercise that right when picking a PC to run Linux.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do have to say in all fairness that I wasn&#39;t using a Dell or a ThinkPad, and judging by my coworkers, life is easier if you stick with the popular models.</p>
<p>Stuff that has worked for a while (i.e. for older models, I have a couple at home delegate to server) never broke.  It&#39;s only recent models I had problem with, and with the less common or recently introduced components.</p>
<p>Suspend/resume was on again, off again, on again, off again, probably because the new Intel chipset.  So while the cycles were very quick, over the course of a year you get the same down time as Vista.</p>
<p>It was definitely worse than OS X, which just works, but Apple doesn&#39;t give you much of choice in hardware, and I did exercise that right when picking a PC to run Linux.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://theappslab.com/2008/07/29/os-x-ubuntu-and-other-fun-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-4698</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 06:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oracleappslab.com/?p=1054#comment-4698</guid>
		<description>Hmm, well, I&#039;ve not been using long enough to comment, but so far, things seem pretty stable (knocking on wood), even after several updates.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Overall, I like the shorter release cycle for core stuff. You can also build a system and keep it the same forever, no annoying critical update warnings. XP and OS X seem to have a lot of those, and you always wonder how important they really are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, well, I&#39;ve not been using long enough to comment, but so far, things seem pretty stable (knocking on wood), even after several updates.</p>
<p>Overall, I like the shorter release cycle for core stuff. You can also build a system and keep it the same forever, no annoying critical update warnings. XP and OS X seem to have a lot of those, and you always wonder how important they really are.</p>
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		<title>By: assaf</title>
		<link>http://theappslab.com/2008/07/29/os-x-ubuntu-and-other-fun-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-4697</link>
		<dc:creator>assaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 06:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oracleappslab.com/?p=1054#comment-4697</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know about that.  I used Fedora, you Kernel and core updates almost every week, much faster than Windows or OS X.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But then some updates would break sound, or resume (other updates would break suspend), or the fn keys would stop working, something would go wrong and only get fixed a few releases later.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So while things get fixed really quick, they also get broken again (and again) that overall I think I was worse off than waiting longer on a non-regressing release cycle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#39;t know about that.  I used Fedora, you Kernel and core updates almost every week, much faster than Windows or OS X.</p>
<p>But then some updates would break sound, or resume (other updates would break suspend), or the fn keys would stop working, something would go wrong and only get fixed a few releases later.</p>
<p>So while things get fixed really quick, they also get broken again (and again) that overall I think I was worse off than waiting longer on a non-regressing release cycle.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://theappslab.com/2008/07/29/os-x-ubuntu-and-other-fun-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-4696</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 04:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oracleappslab.com/?p=1054#comment-4696</guid>
		<description>Will do and vice versa. Another plus for Linux, frequent updates to the core features and more major releases. So, problems tend to resolve more quickly than with packaged for profit O/S.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will do and vice versa. Another plus for Linux, frequent updates to the core features and more major releases. So, problems tend to resolve more quickly than with packaged for profit O/S.</p>
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		<title>By: Warren Baird</title>
		<link>http://theappslab.com/2008/07/29/os-x-ubuntu-and-other-fun-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-4695</link>
		<dc:creator>Warren Baird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 03:51:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oracleappslab.com/?p=1054#comment-4695</guid>
		<description>well - if you find a solution to the multiple monitor thing - definitely let me know.   I&#039;ve heard that the Xorg people are making strides in that direction - but I don&#039;t think they&#039;ve solved the problem yet...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well &#8211; if you find a solution to the multiple monitor thing &#8211; definitely let me know.   I&#39;ve heard that the Xorg people are making strides in that direction &#8211; but I don&#39;t think they&#39;ve solved the problem yet&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://theappslab.com/2008/07/29/os-x-ubuntu-and-other-fun-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-4694</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 01:08:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oracleappslab.com/?p=1054#comment-4694</guid>
		<description>Exactly my top problem now. I had XP working on a dual monitor setup, but Ubuntu has no idea how to make that work. I had to start fresh with a new xorg.conf b/c it got so borked.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Even now, it&#039;s a bit cranky about changing resolutions.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;OS X, no problems at all with the laptop screen plus a monitor, even better than XP, which always reset itself when I rebooted, probably a DVI/VGA thing.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So, some things are very frustrating, while others just work. I hadn&#039;t used Linux since Red Hat in 99 so this was a huge improvement for me. I love Ubuntu.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly my top problem now. I had XP working on a dual monitor setup, but Ubuntu has no idea how to make that work. I had to start fresh with a new xorg.conf b/c it got so borked.</p>
<p>Even now, it&#39;s a bit cranky about changing resolutions.</p>
<p>OS X, no problems at all with the laptop screen plus a monitor, even better than XP, which always reset itself when I rebooted, probably a DVI/VGA thing.</p>
<p>So, some things are very frustrating, while others just work. I hadn&#39;t used Linux since Red Hat in 99 so this was a huge improvement for me. I love Ubuntu.</p>
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		<title>By: Warren Baird</title>
		<link>http://theappslab.com/2008/07/29/os-x-ubuntu-and-other-fun-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-4693</link>
		<dc:creator>Warren Baird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 00:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oracleappslab.com/?p=1054#comment-4693</guid>
		<description>I think my experience has  somewhat mirrored Rich&#039;s --- I&#039;ve used linux since the bad-old-days of kernel 0.9.x on a 386, and I must admit that when I moved to a macbook pro for my personal machine - I didn&#039;t miss *at all* the mucking around with config files, and recompiling kernel modules I had to do on linux.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That being said, it is true that Ubuntu is getting closer and closer to the point where you don&#039;t need to mess about too much.   but it still has a long way to go.   &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Just one small example - external monitors.  I can plug my mbp into an external monitor, and after a moment my desktop automatically grows to include the new monitor, and I can continue working.   it almost always guesses the right resolution, and it&#039;s easy to tell it the orientation, and it remembers the orientation and resolution if I connect to a similar monitor later.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;With Linux (Ubuntu 7.10 at least), the only approach I&#039;ve found that works is to edit the Xorg.conf file to have configurations and layouts for all my monitors - and then I have to kill my X session and start a new X session manually with the correct layout.   Not my idea of &#039;usable&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think my experience has  somewhat mirrored Rich&#39;s &#8212; I&#39;ve used linux since the bad-old-days of kernel 0.9.x on a 386, and I must admit that when I moved to a macbook pro for my personal machine &#8211; I didn&#39;t miss *at all* the mucking around with config files, and recompiling kernel modules I had to do on linux.</p>
<p>That being said, it is true that Ubuntu is getting closer and closer to the point where you don&#39;t need to mess about too much.   but it still has a long way to go.   </p>
<p>Just one small example &#8211; external monitors.  I can plug my mbp into an external monitor, and after a moment my desktop automatically grows to include the new monitor, and I can continue working.   it almost always guesses the right resolution, and it&#39;s easy to tell it the orientation, and it remembers the orientation and resolution if I connect to a similar monitor later.</p>
<p>With Linux (Ubuntu 7.10 at least), the only approach I&#39;ve found that works is to edit the Xorg.conf file to have configurations and layouts for all my monitors &#8211; and then I have to kill my X session and start a new X session manually with the correct layout.   Not my idea of &#39;usable&#39;.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://theappslab.com/2008/07/29/os-x-ubuntu-and-other-fun-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-4692</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 00:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oracleappslab.com/?p=1054#comment-4692</guid>
		<description>We are quickly becoming the go-to resource for geeking out at Oracle, not that that&#039;s a bad thing, just funny ha-ha.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are quickly becoming the go-to resource for geeking out at Oracle, not that that&#39;s a bad thing, just funny ha-ha.</p>
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		<title>By: manalang</title>
		<link>http://theappslab.com/2008/07/29/os-x-ubuntu-and-other-fun-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-4688</link>
		<dc:creator>manalang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:22:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oracleappslab.com/?p=1054#comment-4688</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d love to see if you can get this to work.  I spent many hours trying to get this to work by installing from source and applying Oracle&#039;s certs to no avail.  I think it had something to do with a failed hybrid implementation... please post a comment if you get it to work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;d love to see if you can get this to work.  I spent many hours trying to get this to work by installing from source and applying Oracle&#39;s certs to no avail.  I think it had something to do with a failed hybrid implementation&#8230; please post a comment if you get it to work.</p>
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		<title>By: manalang</title>
		<link>http://theappslab.com/2008/07/29/os-x-ubuntu-and-other-fun-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-4691</link>
		<dc:creator>manalang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:18:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oracleappslab.com/?p=1054#comment-4691</guid>
		<description>I spent considerable time trying to get vpnc to work on Oracle&#039;s Cisco VPN concentrators without luck.  First of all, the vpnc that Ubuntu has in its repo wasn&#039;t compiled with SSL support.  So, I had to compile from source... and even after that, I couldn&#039;t get it to work with Oracle&#039;s certs/encryption.  I&#039;d love to see if anyone at Oracle has actually gotten it to work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I spent considerable time trying to get vpnc to work on Oracle&#39;s Cisco VPN concentrators without luck.  First of all, the vpnc that Ubuntu has in its repo wasn&#39;t compiled with SSL support.  So, I had to compile from source&#8230; and even after that, I couldn&#39;t get it to work with Oracle&#39;s certs/encryption.  I&#39;d love to see if anyone at Oracle has actually gotten it to work.</p>
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		<title>By: Warren Baird</title>
		<link>http://theappslab.com/2008/07/29/os-x-ubuntu-and-other-fun-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-4687</link>
		<dc:creator>Warren Baird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oracleappslab.com/?p=1054#comment-4687</guid>
		<description>actually - vpnc can connect to Cisco VPN.   Out of the box it won&#039;t work with Oracle&#039;s VPN, since the support for certificates is turned off, but I understand that if you build from source and turn on certificate support it works fine with Oracle&#039;s VPN.   I plan on trying it sometime soon - I&#039;ll let you know if it works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>actually &#8211; vpnc can connect to Cisco VPN.   Out of the box it won&#39;t work with Oracle&#39;s VPN, since the support for certificates is turned off, but I understand that if you build from source and turn on certificate support it works fine with Oracle&#39;s VPN.   I plan on trying it sometime soon &#8211; I&#39;ll let you know if it works.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://theappslab.com/2008/07/29/os-x-ubuntu-and-other-fun-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-4678</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:05:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oracleappslab.com/?p=1054#comment-4678</guid>
		<description>Heh, licensing, another reason to go Linux.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh, licensing, another reason to go Linux.</p>
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		<title>By: oraclebase</title>
		<link>http://theappslab.com/2008/07/29/os-x-ubuntu-and-other-fun-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-4677</link>
		<dc:creator>oraclebase</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oracleappslab.com/?p=1054#comment-4677</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not saying Vista is the better choice of Windows. XP is leaner, faster and a bit neater. It&#039;s just I have a proper license for Vista on that laptop, and I&#039;m not into breaking the law these days. :)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Cheers&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Tim...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m not saying Vista is the better choice of Windows. XP is leaner, faster and a bit neater. It&#39;s just I have a proper license for Vista on that laptop, and I&#39;m not into breaking the law these days. <img src='http://theappslab.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Cheers</p>
<p>Tim&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://theappslab.com/2008/07/29/os-x-ubuntu-and-other-fun-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-4672</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oracleappslab.com/?p=1054#comment-4672</guid>
		<description>I thought so too, since it&#039;s not like the laptop is ancient. I have Intel 945GM inside the Dell. I trolled around the Intertubes and tried some stuff recommended on the Compiz wiki and a few other places. No dice. Oh well, it was only eye candy.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;A friend of mine is planning to buy a new Mini and hook it to his 1080p 50&quot; LCD TV as a monitor. Should be awesome. I&#039;m very happy with my 2nd generation Macbook, the white one. I upgraded the memory aftermarket, paying a quarter of what they wanted installed by Apple. It does everything I need, with a few exceptions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought so too, since it&#39;s not like the laptop is ancient. I have Intel 945GM inside the Dell. I trolled around the Intertubes and tried some stuff recommended on the Compiz wiki and a few other places. No dice. Oh well, it was only eye candy.</p>
<p>A friend of mine is planning to buy a new Mini and hook it to his 1080p 50&#8243; LCD TV as a monitor. Should be awesome. I&#39;m very happy with my 2nd generation Macbook, the white one. I upgraded the memory aftermarket, paying a quarter of what they wanted installed by Apple. It does everything I need, with a few exceptions.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://theappslab.com/2008/07/29/os-x-ubuntu-and-other-fun-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-4675</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:45:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oracleappslab.com/?p=1054#comment-4675</guid>
		<description>The rotting over time is exactly why I finally bit the bullet and moved to Ubuntu. At a certain point, you can&#039;t get back to the performance you had initially, even with a defrag.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My Dell is way faster running VMs on Ubuntu than it was running them on XP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The rotting over time is exactly why I finally bit the bullet and moved to Ubuntu. At a certain point, you can&#39;t get back to the performance you had initially, even with a defrag.</p>
<p>My Dell is way faster running VMs on Ubuntu than it was running them on XP.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://theappslab.com/2008/07/29/os-x-ubuntu-and-other-fun-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-4676</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:43:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oracleappslab.com/?p=1054#comment-4676</guid>
		<description>Funny &quot;does more of the things I need, with less hassle&quot; sums up nicely, with the emphasis on hassle. I&#039;ve only run Vista a bit on a VM, but it seemed very heavy, as do all Windows O/S compared to Linux and Mac. Still no VPN issues, dual monitors worked mostly fine, etc.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Good point about h/w, supporting more kinds does mean exponentially more driver work.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;After the latest move, I&#039;m trying to stay more cloud/backup/VM centric to ensure that I can lose the box and still be fine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny &#8220;does more of the things I need, with less hassle&#8221; sums up nicely, with the emphasis on hassle. I&#39;ve only run Vista a bit on a VM, but it seemed very heavy, as do all Windows O/S compared to Linux and Mac. Still no VPN issues, dual monitors worked mostly fine, etc.</p>
<p>Good point about h/w, supporting more kinds does mean exponentially more driver work.</p>
<p>After the latest move, I&#39;m trying to stay more cloud/backup/VM centric to ensure that I can lose the box and still be fine.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://theappslab.com/2008/07/29/os-x-ubuntu-and-other-fun-stuff/comment-page-1/#comment-4690</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oracleappslab.com/?p=1054#comment-4690</guid>
		<description>That is weird and indicative of the Linux experience. Rich said we couldn&#039;t use vpnc; someone suggested it on one of my series of posts about my XP-Ubuntu move in early July. Rich ran Ubuntu for a long time, so I figure he tried to make it work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is weird and indicative of the Linux experience. Rich said we couldn&#39;t use vpnc; someone suggested it on one of my series of posts about my XP-Ubuntu move in early July. Rich ran Ubuntu for a long time, so I figure he tried to make it work.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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