Comments on: Email: A Love/Hate Relationship http://theappslab.com/2008/12/02/email-a-lovehate-relationship/ Driving Innovation Sat, 20 Mar 2010 05:41:10 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Jake http://theappslab.com/2008/12/02/email-a-lovehate-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-5603 Jake Tue, 09 Dec 2008 03:08:33 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=1938#comment-5603 You're right of course. It's been a while since I used any of them. I should have said elm instead of emacs in my original reply. We used to use elm and pico with an emacs editor. I don't recall it being slow. You're right of course. It's been a while since I used any of them. I should have said elm instead of emacs in my original reply. We used to use elm and pico with an emacs editor. I don't recall it being slow.

]]> By: Dan Norris http://theappslab.com/2008/12/02/email-a-lovehate-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-5602 Dan Norris Tue, 09 Dec 2008 02:47:48 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=1938#comment-5602 No to derail this, but elm was a separate, standalone program that could use emacs or vi (or pico or joe or whatever) as an editor. It wasn't tied to emacs in any way. No to derail this, but elm was a separate, standalone program that could use emacs or vi (or pico or joe or whatever) as an editor. It wasn't tied to emacs in any way.

]]> By: Jake http://theappslab.com/2008/12/02/email-a-lovehate-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-5601 Jake Tue, 09 Dec 2008 02:04:57 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=1938#comment-5601 Compared to email clients like TBird or (gasp) Outlook, CLI clients like elm (based on Emacs right?) and vi are way faster. Compared to email clients like TBird or (gasp) Outlook, CLI clients like elm (based on Emacs right?) and vi are way faster.

]]> By: Dan Norris http://theappslab.com/2008/12/02/email-a-lovehate-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-5599 Dan Norris Tue, 09 Dec 2008 01:16:28 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=1938#comment-5599 I don't think I've ever heard of Emacs called "fast" or "lightweight"--this is a first. I'd much prefer to use elm to read my mail if I could (assuming it still exists). elm + vi was wicked fast for me--guess it's all what you get used to. These days, the browser widgets installed/used by some webmail providers make keyboard shortcuts almost as fast as the good ol' green screen clients. I don't think I've ever heard of Emacs called “fast” or “lightweight”–this is a first. I'd much prefer to use elm to read my mail if I could (assuming it still exists). elm + vi was wicked fast for me–guess it's all what you get used to. These days, the browser widgets installed/used by some webmail providers make keyboard shortcuts almost as fast as the good ol' green screen clients.

]]> By: Jake http://theappslab.com/2008/12/02/email-a-lovehate-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-5591 Jake Sun, 07 Dec 2008 03:54:12 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=1938#comment-5591 We're still planning on email subscriptions, unless Marketing builds it for Mix first, in which case, we'll just uptake it.<br><br>You're referring to the iPhone optimized version of Connect People Search I assume. I haven't got much response to that, which surprises me. Rich will probably tinker more with iPhone stuff when we get a standard way to deploy apps within the firewall. We're still planning on email subscriptions, unless Marketing builds it for Mix first, in which case, we'll just uptake it.

You're referring to the iPhone optimized version of Connect People Search I assume. I haven't got much response to that, which surprises me. Rich will probably tinker more with iPhone stuff when we get a standard way to deploy apps within the firewall.

]]> By: David Christopher http://theappslab.com/2008/12/02/email-a-lovehate-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-5590 David Christopher Sun, 07 Dec 2008 00:42:44 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=1938#comment-5590 Personally - I would like you to make it totally awesome and leave the "drawing of traffic" to people like me and the dedicated Web 2.0 Champions - it's what we are paid to do ;-)<br><br>Saw you have been doing some social networking stuff on mobile devices - looking good... Personally – I would like you to make it totally awesome and leave the “drawing of traffic” to people like me and the dedicated Web 2.0 Champions – it's what we are paid to do ;-)

Saw you have been doing some social networking stuff on mobile devices – looking good…

]]> By: Jake http://theappslab.com/2008/12/02/email-a-lovehate-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-5581 Jake Fri, 05 Dec 2008 22:34:24 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=1938#comment-5581 I get why people *say* they want email subscriptions, and I happen to think they are mildly useful. Rich and I have been chatting about how to integrate more email and IM interactions into Connect. Why? Because it's obvious that RSS doesn't fit the bill.<br><br>At the end of the day, it comes down to interest. If the content isn't interesting, people file the email mentally as spam. If it is interesting, you get 35 emails about how to decide between Macbooks.<br><br>This also speaks to why 2.0 will fail in lots of enterprises. Because change management is hard, you can't count on the adoption that's required to see benefit, i.e. network effects. It's not for everyone, knowing which makes me wonder how much development I should spend on drawing traffic vs. making it totally awesome for the diehard users. I get why people *say* they want email subscriptions, and I happen to think they are mildly useful. Rich and I have been chatting about how to integrate more email and IM interactions into Connect. Why? Because it's obvious that RSS doesn't fit the bill.

At the end of the day, it comes down to interest. If the content isn't interesting, people file the email mentally as spam. If it is interesting, you get 35 emails about how to decide between Macbooks.

This also speaks to why 2.0 will fail in lots of enterprises. Because change management is hard, you can't count on the adoption that's required to see benefit, i.e. network effects. It's not for everyone, knowing which makes me wonder how much development I should spend on drawing traffic vs. making it totally awesome for the diehard users.

]]> By: David Christopher http://theappslab.com/2008/12/02/email-a-lovehate-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-5578 David Christopher Fri, 05 Dec 2008 18:23:41 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=1938#comment-5578 When people ask for email subscription, they are not asking for more emails they are asking for consolidated communication.<br><br>Imagine a world where a company communicates / collaborates primarily through social communities where a user can "watch" groups and receive an email notification once a day of updates. They can then choose to read and reply accordingly.<br><br>There is a statistic which a colleague of mine told me (so i reserve the right to be wrong), on average for every email you send out you receive 7 replies in relation to that subject.<br><br>We are at a key transition period in our communication. Generation Y are brought up on not using email but instead using social networking, micro-blogging etc... to communicate and collaborate whilst the old generation (Generation X) are using the more traditional means. Finding the balance / cross-over is difficult and email subscription is a small step (I hear this many times from Executive Mgmt teams) whereas RSS maybe a step to far for Generation X.<br><br>Change Management is always difficult....;-) When people ask for email subscription, they are not asking for more emails they are asking for consolidated communication.

Imagine a world where a company communicates / collaborates primarily through social communities where a user can “watch” groups and receive an email notification once a day of updates. They can then choose to read and reply accordingly.

There is a statistic which a colleague of mine told me (so i reserve the right to be wrong), on average for every email you send out you receive 7 replies in relation to that subject.

We are at a key transition period in our communication. Generation Y are brought up on not using email but instead using social networking, micro-blogging etc… to communicate and collaborate whilst the old generation (Generation X) are using the more traditional means. Finding the balance / cross-over is difficult and email subscription is a small step (I hear this many times from Executive Mgmt teams) whereas RSS maybe a step to far for Generation X.

Change Management is always difficult….;-)

]]> By: Jake http://theappslab.com/2008/12/02/email-a-lovehate-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-5572 Jake Fri, 05 Dec 2008 07:05:23 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=1938#comment-5572 You sound like my buddy from college who only uses Emacs to read his mail, refusing to use any web mail or rich email client. It is fast and lightweight, but we don't all have the ability to do that.<br><br>When I was first here, 96-99, we could access mail from a terminal. I think they shut that off, although I've not tried recently, i.e. since 2001.<br><br>Nevertheless, I am a fan of rich and good UI, damn the bandwidth and the newspaper :) You sound like my buddy from college who only uses Emacs to read his mail, refusing to use any web mail or rich email client. It is fast and lightweight, but we don't all have the ability to do that.

When I was first here, 96-99, we could access mail from a terminal. I think they shut that off, although I've not tried recently, i.e. since 2001.

Nevertheless, I am a fan of rich and good UI, damn the bandwidth and the newspaper :)

]]> By: joel garry http://theappslab.com/2008/12/02/email-a-lovehate-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-5570 joel garry Fri, 05 Dec 2008 06:11:49 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=1938#comment-5570 How many accounts? Well, I have one with several aliases that goes back continuously to 1992. I have half-a-dozen on my home ISP. I have work accounts. I have a couple of domains - how many is that? I have several on the big ISP's, generally in order to use some product. I have several on websites/bbs's. I have many that I have forgotten about. Sometimes I remember about them, and am amazed they are still there. I use one that went away years ago to post on usenet, extremely efficient spam filter.<br><br>And people wonder why I don't jump on the cooltool of the day. Other people wonder why I read the newspaper on the train. UI BANDWIDTH!<br><br>If I take the time to send email to someone, I'm offended if they declare email bankruptcy. But then again, I'm not afraid to offend people who send me crap. How many accounts? Well, I have one with several aliases that goes back continuously to 1992. I have half-a-dozen on my home ISP. I have work accounts. I have a couple of domains – how many is that? I have several on the big ISP's, generally in order to use some product. I have several on websites/bbs's. I have many that I have forgotten about. Sometimes I remember about them, and am amazed they are still there. I use one that went away years ago to post on usenet, extremely efficient spam filter.

And people wonder why I don't jump on the cooltool of the day. Other people wonder why I read the newspaper on the train. UI BANDWIDTH!

If I take the time to send email to someone, I'm offended if they declare email bankruptcy. But then again, I'm not afraid to offend people who send me crap.

]]> By: Jake http://theappslab.com/2008/12/02/email-a-lovehate-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-5550 Jake Wed, 03 Dec 2008 04:55:22 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=1938#comment-5550 Yeah, good point about replacement. Seems that early adopters are too quick to pronounce X as a replacement for Y, while longtime users of Y want X built into/integrated with Y.<br><br>All the while, making it tough to remember what X and Y are really good at doing. <br><br>My point about RSS speaks to this. Why do people want email to do things they could do with RSS? This just creates more email. Sandy and TripIt are examples of how web apps leverage what email is good at, i.e. sending and receiving unique data. Yeah, good point about replacement. Seems that early adopters are too quick to pronounce X as a replacement for Y, while longtime users of Y want X built into/integrated with Y.

All the while, making it tough to remember what X and Y are really good at doing.

My point about RSS speaks to this. Why do people want email to do things they could do with RSS? This just creates more email. Sandy and TripIt are examples of how web apps leverage what email is good at, i.e. sending and receiving unique data.

]]> By: badgerworks http://theappslab.com/2008/12/02/email-a-lovehate-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-5549 badgerworks Wed, 03 Dec 2008 03:55:49 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=1938#comment-5549 I think there might be a hang up in the world about replacement. It seems as though when some cool new thing comes out it must replace something else, even if that something else is slightly different and has some possibly unique applications. I wonder though, if instead of replacing the last cool thing, each new and easier thing can make the older thing a bit more valuable(?). For instance, microblogging has not replaced blogging, but it can and does enhance the value of blogging (by teasing, driving traffic, etc.). <br><br>Check out how Ana Marie Cox rates the dollar value of certain communication channels <a href="http://anamariecox.typepad.com/ana_marie_cox/2008/10/rate-card.html" rel="nofollow">http://anamariecox.typepad.com/ana_marie_cox/20...</a>. Bizarre, but pretty interesting that she actually did raise money this way. Then check out her addendum that places a value on social networking <a href="http://anamariecox.typepad.com/ana_marie_cox/2008/10/status-update-s.html" rel="nofollow">http://anamariecox.typepad.com/ana_marie_cox/20...</a>. I think there might be a hang up in the world about replacement. It seems as though when some cool new thing comes out it must replace something else, even if that something else is slightly different and has some possibly unique applications. I wonder though, if instead of replacing the last cool thing, each new and easier thing can make the older thing a bit more valuable(?). For instance, microblogging has not replaced blogging, but it can and does enhance the value of blogging (by teasing, driving traffic, etc.).

Check out how Ana Marie Cox rates the dollar value of certain communication channels http://anamariecox.typepad.com/ana_marie_cox/20.... Bizarre, but pretty interesting that she actually did raise money this way. Then check out her addendum that places a value on social networking http://anamariecox.typepad.com/ana_marie_cox/20....

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