Comments on: It Just Works http://theappslab.com/2009/04/22/it-just-works/ Driving Innovation Thu, 24 May 2012 14:11:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Goodbye Summer | Oracle http://theappslab.com/2009/04/22/it-just-works/comment-page-1/#comment-9315 Goodbye Summer | Oracle Tue, 08 Sep 2009 04:23:43 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=2781#comment-9315 [...] I guess the release of Snow Leopard last week counts as news. My urge for shiny things is fighting my fears of OS upgrades right now. It didn’t help today when I got the dreaded flashing folder with a question mark when I rebooted OS X today. Luckily, the recovery process was easy, not like recovering Windows. Score another for just working. [...] [...] I guess the release of Snow Leopard last week counts as news. My urge for shiny things is fighting my fears of OS upgrades right now. It didn’t help today when I got the dreaded flashing folder with a question mark when I rebooted OS X today. Luckily, the recovery process was easy, not like recovering Windows. Score another for just working. [...]

]]> By: Jake http://theappslab.com/2009/04/22/it-just-works/comment-page-1/#comment-6856 Jake Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:03:19 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=2781#comment-6856 Heh, Apple and open source have a strange relationship.<br><br>I agree that package management could be better. I have a similar piling up problem, but since I have free disk space, I don't really care. Maybe that was their goal, throw disk at the problem :) Heh, Apple and open source have a strange relationship.

I agree that package management could be better. I have a similar piling up problem, but since I have free disk space, I don't really care. Maybe that was their goal, throw disk at the problem :)

]]> By: Jake http://theappslab.com/2009/04/22/it-just-works/comment-page-1/#comment-6855 Jake Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:00:22 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=2781#comment-6855 To your PC in every home point, I think people get caught up with the price tag of a Mac. Most average users in the US will keep a computer at least 5 years. Think about how much extra maintenance comes as you get a fragged disk that probably is part of a bot net.<br><br>Most people don't have IT in the family. To your PC in every home point, I think people get caught up with the price tag of a Mac. Most average users in the US will keep a computer at least 5 years. Think about how much extra maintenance comes as you get a fragged disk that probably is part of a bot net.

Most people don't have IT in the family.

]]> By: Jake http://theappslab.com/2009/04/22/it-just-works/comment-page-1/#comment-6854 Jake Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:56:40 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=2781#comment-6854 Your path is clear: Ubuntu or gOS. Your path is clear: Ubuntu or gOS.

]]> By: Jake http://theappslab.com/2009/04/22/it-just-works/comment-page-1/#comment-6853 Jake Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:55:53 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=2781#comment-6853 One gripe I have with OS X is that it hides stuff like root access. I agree with your assessment of the user types, so this makes sense. If a lot of your users are relative n00bs, you should hide stuff that can bork the O/S.<br><br>I love running Ubuntu and wish I had a beefier machine for it.<br><br>Macs are pricey, but they're coming down every year. Remember how much they were before the Intel deal? I'm not jumping into Snow Leopard right away; I just went to Leopard a few months ago. One gripe I have with OS X is that it hides stuff like root access. I agree with your assessment of the user types, so this makes sense. If a lot of your users are relative n00bs, you should hide stuff that can bork the O/S.

I love running Ubuntu and wish I had a beefier machine for it.

Macs are pricey, but they're coming down every year. Remember how much they were before the Intel deal? I'm not jumping into Snow Leopard right away; I just went to Leopard a few months ago.

]]> By: Chris Dillon http://theappslab.com/2009/04/22/it-just-works/comment-page-1/#comment-6851 Chris Dillon Thu, 23 Apr 2009 18:23:47 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=2781#comment-6851 Trusism: Macs suck less.<br><br>They try to push open source at home without users knowing it. OpenGL, objc, X11 etc etc. Objective-C and their API has been a hurdle for me. Macruby looks like a good shortcut (good to have a rapid option) if it matures.<br><br>By no means perfect. Package management! There's a few ways they do it now.<br>1) .app special folder (drag and drop) would work great if this was it<br>2) mega installer (like Adobe and Microsoft installers), fails<br>3) unix installers and .pkg types<br><br>The problem with 2 & 3 is there's no uninstall. System just piles up stuff until you reformat? Gentoo and Debian package management should be emulated or something official in SysPrefs should be developed. Probably too late at this point. Would be best if Adobe/MS just made .app packages and then Debian packages became standard in Snow Leopard. Fat chance, too big of a change. Trusism: Macs suck less.

They try to push open source at home without users knowing it. OpenGL, objc, X11 etc etc. Objective-C and their API has been a hurdle for me. Macruby looks like a good shortcut (good to have a rapid option) if it matures.

By no means perfect. Package management! There's a few ways they do it now.
1) .app special folder (drag and drop) would work great if this was it
2) mega installer (like Adobe and Microsoft installers), fails
3) unix installers and .pkg types

The problem with 2 & 3 is there's no uninstall. System just piles up stuff until you reformat? Gentoo and Debian package management should be emulated or something official in SysPrefs should be developed. Probably too late at this point. Would be best if Adobe/MS just made .app packages and then Debian packages became standard in Snow Leopard. Fat chance, too big of a change.

]]> By: chet http://theappslab.com/2009/04/22/it-just-works/comment-page-1/#comment-6843 chet Thu, 23 Apr 2009 08:20:45 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=2781#comment-6843 Though I haven't used a Mac (other than wifey's iPhone), I can still appreciate what they have done, particularly in the usability category. (That might come from reading too much 37signals). There's really no arguing with success. <br><br>I'm too much of a newbie to debate the differences between operating systems, I think they each have their points. PC (windows) for getting into just about every home which then drives more and more people to look or get curious about other operating systems (Linux, OS/X, etc). Here I go blabbing again... Though I haven't used a Mac (other than wifey's iPhone), I can still appreciate what they have done, particularly in the usability category. (That might come from reading too much 37signals). There's really no arguing with success.

I'm too much of a newbie to debate the differences between operating systems, I think they each have their points. PC (windows) for getting into just about every home which then drives more and more people to look or get curious about other operating systems (Linux, OS/X, etc). Here I go blabbing again…

]]> By: Tim http://theappslab.com/2009/04/22/it-just-works/comment-page-1/#comment-6840 Tim Thu, 23 Apr 2009 07:52:52 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=2781#comment-6840 All I know ... I hate Vista with a passion! My wife and sons laptops have it. I just can not face ripping it out to put in the mildly bearable XP ... I have lost the will to 're-install' All I know … I hate Vista with a passion! My wife and sons laptops have it. I just can not face ripping it out to put in the mildly bearable XP … I have lost the will to 're-install'

]]> By: terrywang http://theappslab.com/2009/04/22/it-just-works/comment-page-1/#comment-6838 terrywang Thu, 23 Apr 2009 07:28:01 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=2781#comment-6838 To me, I am moderate towards Macs (hardware), as they r not cost-effective to me. While I'll say I like Mac OS X since I started using 10.3 Jaguar. <br><br>I think OS X's philosophy is totally different from Windows. With OS X, people can do most of the daily job with no 3rd party software installed. It looks very simple and straightforward to end-users.<br><br>While Windows makes plenty of room for 3rd party software developers, paid or free:)<br><br>I think OS X will be the excellent OS for 2 kinds of people: 1. non-IT people like my wife and kids. 2. geeks or gurus like OS X (who r *NIX experts and use fink/macports a lot, I don't like ports...). <br><br>So, I prefer Linux simply because it is open source (have full control of the whole system) and I am used to it. I can manage to solve all problems and do almost everything. Of course, I'll use my Mac for peace of mind sometimes. Now mainly with Ubuntu and Gentoo, I'll upgrade to Jaunty in 1 day or two:)<br><br>Regarding Windows 7: I tried build 7068. Nothing fancy. Very average, no big improvements, I reckon what they did is just optimize the kernel. It's just Vista with Windows Kernal 7.0^_^<br><br>So, save our money for Snow Leopard:)<br><br>ZFS is cool, BtrFS for Linux is cool as well. Now that Oracle buys Sun, I am curious to see what is going to happen to these 2 Oracle owned FS. To me, I am moderate towards Macs (hardware), as they r not cost-effective to me. While I'll say I like Mac OS X since I started using 10.3 Jaguar.

I think OS X's philosophy is totally different from Windows. With OS X, people can do most of the daily job with no 3rd party software installed. It looks very simple and straightforward to end-users.

While Windows makes plenty of room for 3rd party software developers, paid or free:)

I think OS X will be the excellent OS for 2 kinds of people: 1. non-IT people like my wife and kids. 2. geeks or gurus like OS X (who r *NIX experts and use fink/macports a lot, I don't like ports…).

So, I prefer Linux simply because it is open source (have full control of the whole system) and I am used to it. I can manage to solve all problems and do almost everything. Of course, I'll use my Mac for peace of mind sometimes. Now mainly with Ubuntu and Gentoo, I'll upgrade to Jaunty in 1 day or two:)

Regarding Windows 7: I tried build 7068. Nothing fancy. Very average, no big improvements, I reckon what they did is just optimize the kernel. It's just Vista with Windows Kernal 7.0^_^

So, save our money for Snow Leopard:)

ZFS is cool, BtrFS for Linux is cool as well. Now that Oracle buys Sun, I am curious to see what is going to happen to these 2 Oracle owned FS.

]]> By: Jake http://theappslab.com/2009/04/22/it-just-works/comment-page-1/#comment-6834 Jake Thu, 23 Apr 2009 06:53:39 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=2781#comment-6834 I think this is highly dependent on what you use the machine for, e.g. Chet's requirements are pretty heavy-duty, whereas most people won't need much more than a browser and a word processor.<br><br>It's tough to make the argument that Mac and Linux don't have the software you need anymore. In fact, I think there are more open source alternatives for Linux (natch) than for Windows, due to their cultural differences.<br><br>I won't get into cost here. Suffice to say that pricetag != cost of ownership. I think this is highly dependent on what you use the machine for, e.g. Chet's requirements are pretty heavy-duty, whereas most people won't need much more than a browser and a word processor.

It's tough to make the argument that Mac and Linux don't have the software you need anymore. In fact, I think there are more open source alternatives for Linux (natch) than for Windows, due to their cultural differences.

I won't get into cost here. Suffice to say that pricetag != cost of ownership.

]]> By: jpiwowar http://theappslab.com/2009/04/22/it-just-works/comment-page-1/#comment-6833 jpiwowar Thu, 23 Apr 2009 06:39:25 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=2781#comment-6833 Yup, 10gR2 is out for OS X Intel. As Jake mentioned, Alex Gorbachev posted a <a href="http://www.pythian.com/news/2014/installing-apex-on-oracle-10gr2-on-mac-os-x-leopard-intel" rel="nofollow">how-to for installing Apex on Mac</a>. SQLDeveloper works. JDeveloper works. As for the rest of it, Virtualbox or VMware+Oracle Enterprise Linux gets you there.<br><br>Do it. You *know* you want to. ;-) Okay, maybe that was a bit heavy-handed. "*ahem* I encourage you to evaluate a Mac the next time you're looking to rev your workstation."<br><br>Also, I can't believe I've been using a Mac for this long and didn't know about that Preview drag-n-drop PDF merge trick. Jake, you rock as usual with the interesting/useful tidbits. Yup, 10gR2 is out for OS X Intel. As Jake mentioned, Alex Gorbachev posted a how-to for installing Apex on Mac. SQLDeveloper works. JDeveloper works. As for the rest of it, Virtualbox or VMware+Oracle Enterprise Linux gets you there.

Do it. You *know* you want to. ;-) Okay, maybe that was a bit heavy-handed. “*ahem* I encourage you to evaluate a Mac the next time you're looking to rev your workstation.”

Also, I can't believe I've been using a Mac for this long and didn't know about that Preview drag-n-drop PDF merge trick. Jake, you rock as usual with the interesting/useful tidbits.

]]> By: Vijay http://theappslab.com/2009/04/22/it-just-works/comment-page-1/#comment-6826 Vijay Thu, 23 Apr 2009 04:22:24 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=2781#comment-6826 I am not a fan of Windows. <br><br>But my thing about not going to a Mac or Unix is the ability to get whatever software you want for mostly free and you can get a PC for 1/3rd the price of a mac, spend 2 days and get all the utilities you want installed. I am not a fan of Windows.

But my thing about not going to a Mac or Unix is the ability to get whatever software you want for mostly free and you can get a PC for 1/3rd the price of a mac, spend 2 days and get all the utilities you want installed.

]]> By: Jake http://theappslab.com/2009/04/22/it-just-works/comment-page-1/#comment-6822 Jake Thu, 23 Apr 2009 01:50:21 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=2781#comment-6822 A scooter drag racing competition? Is that DOS reference?<br><br>I like all the things you mention. My goal here was to point out that Macs come with more stuff than Windows b/c UI is subjective. You can't argue with Preview's pdf capabilities. A scooter drag racing competition? Is that DOS reference?

I like all the things you mention. My goal here was to point out that Macs come with more stuff than Windows b/c UI is subjective. You can't argue with Preview's pdf capabilities.

]]> By: Jake http://theappslab.com/2009/04/22/it-just-works/comment-page-1/#comment-6821 Jake Thu, 23 Apr 2009 01:47:29 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=2781#comment-6821 From what Justin's saying, 11g ported to OS X isn't happening soon.<br><br>Yeah, money is an issue with Apple stuff, especially when you pay the early adopter tax. I really like the iMac I bought the wife, but obviously, it's not portable. Still love my OG iPhone and don't plan to upgrade and don't care to either. From what Justin's saying, 11g ported to OS X isn't happening soon.

Yeah, money is an issue with Apple stuff, especially when you pay the early adopter tax. I really like the iMac I bought the wife, but obviously, it's not portable. Still love my OG iPhone and don't plan to upgrade and don't care to either.

]]> By: Tim Harper http://theappslab.com/2009/04/22/it-just-works/comment-page-1/#comment-6818 Tim Harper Thu, 23 Apr 2009 00:08:28 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=2781#comment-6818 A long time windows user, I hated my Mac for the first 3 or 4 days. Then things changed. Now I prefer it over windows. Things tend to be arranged / designed in a way that closer matches the way I work. I've found it to be easier to manage lots of open programs without feeling crowded - windows was always a nightmare when you had a lot of apps open.<br><br>Finally, having Unix under the hood, with a shell (bash) and terminal that isn't as lame as a scooter drag racing competition really pushes my buttons. A long time windows user, I hated my Mac for the first 3 or 4 days. Then things changed. Now I prefer it over windows. Things tend to be arranged / designed in a way that closer matches the way I work. I've found it to be easier to manage lots of open programs without feeling crowded – windows was always a nightmare when you had a lot of apps open.

Finally, having Unix under the hood, with a shell (bash) and terminal that isn't as lame as a scooter drag racing competition really pushes my buttons.

]]> By: chet http://theappslab.com/2009/04/22/it-just-works/comment-page-1/#comment-6812 chet Wed, 22 Apr 2009 22:57:44 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=2781#comment-6812 11g? (not really, but it would be nice)...and money? I need to be the cool kid on the block and having a MBP or Mac Air would definitely put me in the cool crowd. Baby steps. I've been fighting with myself over buying an iPhone this week...stupid flap on my $10 phone broke off...what better excuse to drop about $300? 11g? (not really, but it would be nice)…and money? I need to be the cool kid on the block and having a MBP or Mac Air would definitely put me in the cool crowd. Baby steps. I've been fighting with myself over buying an iPhone this week…stupid flap on my $10 phone broke off…what better excuse to drop about $300?

]]> By: Jake http://theappslab.com/2009/04/22/it-just-works/comment-page-1/#comment-6811 Jake Wed, 22 Apr 2009 22:46:51 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=2781#comment-6811 Now that pdf is an open standard, Adobe can't do anything, but OS X and other software have been manipulating pdfs for years. Prolly had to pay a license fee or something similar before the spec was opened.<br><br>Yes, 10g R2 was just released for OS X Intel. Raimonds has an install guide. I run SQL Developer on my Mac. I thought I saw an item pass through OraNA about installing APEX on top of the OS X 10g R2 release. What else do you need? Now that pdf is an open standard, Adobe can't do anything, but OS X and other software have been manipulating pdfs for years. Prolly had to pay a license fee or something similar before the spec was opened.

Yes, 10g R2 was just released for OS X Intel. Raimonds has an install guide. I run SQL Developer on my Mac. I thought I saw an item pass through OraNA about installing APEX on top of the OS X 10g R2 release. What else do you need?

]]> By: chet http://theappslab.com/2009/04/22/it-just-works/comment-page-1/#comment-6809 chet Wed, 22 Apr 2009 22:21:28 +0000 http://theappslab.com/?p=2781#comment-6809 First!<br><br>They shouldn't be including things like PDF readers because that would put Adobe out of business or something. What about SnagIt? Now they can't sell software to Mac users? WTF? I smell an anti-trust lawsuit brewing!<br><br>:)<br><br>I haven't had a chance to use a Mac yet. I do know this, they are absolutely gorgeous. I would buy one if I could afford one and if all of the latest Oracle software ran on it (didn't 10gR2 get release for OS/X?). First!

They shouldn't be including things like PDF readers because that would put Adobe out of business or something. What about SnagIt? Now they can't sell software to Mac users? WTF? I smell an anti-trust lawsuit brewing!

:)

I haven't had a chance to use a Mac yet. I do know this, they are absolutely gorgeous. I would buy one if I could afford one and if all of the latest Oracle software ran on it (didn't 10gR2 get release for OS/X?).

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