Measuring Influence and Reputation

By Jake • June 23rd, 2009 • 45 Comments

Photo by anne.oeldorf on Flickr used under Creative Commons

Photo by anne.oeldorf on Flickr used under Creative Commons

The debate about whether FeedBurner’s inclusion of FriendFeed subscribers is a good or bad thing has me thinking how to determine a person’s reputation and influence.

As I keep saying, trust is the key component to New Web. Without trust, it’s difficult to build a community around anything.

Reputation and influence are the next big things in New Web. We’ve been noodling how to establish reputation for a while now and have some ideas for internal use on Connect.

What’s the big deal?

Beyond people you actually know, i.e. met in meat space, worked with on a project, how can you tell if you want to pay attention to someone? Sure, there’s a profile that might help you make the call, but how do you decide to read a person’s blog, follow her/him on Twitter/FriendFeed, friend her/him on Facebook, etc?

There are rudimentary methods that I’m sure everyone uses, since consumer apps don’t provide any reputation scoring (and centralized reputation is a pipe dream for now).

I’m sure you know them already.

Blogs

These are highly subjective and don’t really help you vet the content, but I guarantee that a blog with more subscribers is frequently viewed as more influential, which is why the recent FeedBurner change to add FriendFeed subscribers borks up the system a bit. Of course, the system was already borked.

I usually add new blogs based on the recommendations of friends (ahem, trust), or I’ll test drive them for a week or so to see how the content and commentary is.

A lot of bloggers now show you how many Twitter followers and FriendFeed subscribers they have, which only makes things more messy. Does having a lot of followers on Twitter make you more influential?

Cue the segue.

Twitter, FriendFeed

I lump these two services together because they both employ the asynchronous model for networking.

As with blogs, I also employ the recommendation of friends model both direct and implied, i.e. by looking for overlap with my network.

As Twitter has grown by leaps and bounds, it’s become more difficult to know who’s worth following and who’s not.

Facebook

I’d argue that because of the trust built into the synchronous model employed by traditional social networks, they produce the best and most consistent reputation. The addition of friends in common was a smart move to help people vet potential friends that can easily become part of a reputation system.

It’s only a matter of time before Facebook adds some kind of reputation scoring to their network and adds it to their Facebook Connect payload. This will be the first shot in the war for reputation/influence, which will be part of the war for identity.

So what?
Reputation and influence will be very hard to establish, due to their inherently personal nature. If tomorrow Twitter or Facebook announced a reputation score, people would go nuts comparing themselves, bragging, complaining and dissecting and questioning the algorithm.

Speaking of algorithms, Google is an interesting player in reputation because they have so much data about you and what you do online.

For a long time, forums have calculated scores for members based on contributions, activity, etc. This model works, but it hasn’t been applied outside forums or across networks. This is a good starting point, but it needs major tweaking.

There are solid patterns that can be followed to create reputation and influence scores, and the score should be a combination of algorithm plus user’s scoring of each other, similar to the forum model. The algorithm needs to be smart enough to know when people are gaming though, which is complicated.

Overall, determining a score on the consumer web is a very tough row to hoe.

Not so much inside an enterprise where core values create a basis, e.g. use the company handbook as a starting place for corporate values on which to base reputation. With a baseline, it becomes easier to model reputation and influence based on social activity.

What do you think? Is this a pipe dream for the consumer web? Can reputation be scored inside a company? Did I miss something big?

I don’t know everything, natch, so find the comments and enlighten me.


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  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ben-Turner/784110612 Ben Turner

    Why does there have to be one rating? Why not let the users manipulate their own data and create their own formulas (and, of course, share them) to see which metrics are most representative and productive?

    I'm pushing that route for Galapag.us: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Galapagus/1003399…

  • http://oraclenerd.com/ chet

    “…met in meat space”

    I like it.

  • http://theappslab.com Jake

    I'm all for a feedback-based component, but leaving it all to users creates inconsistency, doesn't it? Plus, generating reputation for people makes them care about it, whereas if it's all on the users, it's harder to get started.

    Look at social networks for an example. Did you one day decide to join Friendster, MySpace, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter or were you invited? The vast majority of people were invited to join.

    So, I prefer an algorithm that factors in user-to-user kudos style points, but also uses other criteria with equal or higher weighting.

  • http://theappslab.com Jake

    Wish I could take credit for that. Alas, someone said it to me last week.

  • InternetStrategist

    I consistently find it curious that people feel more comfortably judging people they meet in the physical than they do getting a feel for people online whom they most likely know far more about (unless they're in the habit of having background checks done on people).

    Con artists in person are far more difficult to detect offline than on because there is a record and inconsistencies are made more obvious.

  • http://theappslab.com Jake

    Interesting point. I suspect con artists online will evolve over time as the low-hanging fruit disappears, e.g. 419 scammers, and social networks with trust built in will be a natural place to start.

  • http://gnuband.org/ paolo

    Hi! Very interesting! I found your blog post from galapag.us ;)
    I'm totally for local trust metrics. See http://gnuband.org/papers

    Paolo http://gnuband.org

  • http://theappslab.com Jake

    Thanks Paolo. Ben from Galapag also commented. I definitely think reputation and trust will be areas where enterprises can fully leverage all the social layers being added. Maybe this is the true differentiator for E 2.0.

  • Facebook User

    Yeah (http://www.markevanstech.com/2008/01/04/are-the&#8230 ;) . When your parents are on Facebook it’s time to move on. When your granparents on it, it’s time to tell your parents to move on. I still get a good bit of mileage out of Twitter – mostly as a filter for info on stuff I’m interested it, ‘though I’ve practically ceased blogging, which really is dead for me, not having a beard (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/8c9d2e2c-1a5e-11de-9f&#8230 ;) or being a edgy arriviste social media “guru”. iPhone? Hero HTC is where it’s at.

    This comment was originally posted on http://theappslab.com/)”>Oracle AppsLab

  • http://theappslab.com/ Jake

    Funny, that was when FB hit 60 million, and they’ve just admitted to 250 million, although speculation says it’s closing in on 300.

    Blogging remains relevant to me b/c I control it, and there’s a record of what I say, in case I need one.

    Twitter is becoming a wasteland of annoyances. My only real value is for communication now.

    This comment was originally posted on http://theappslab.com/)”>Oracle AppsLab

  • http://blogs.oracle.com/stevenChan Steven Chan

    Yep, social networking is so yesterday. The only site I’m on now is LinkedIn, and I actually don’t see the benefit any more. In fact, being happily employed, I’ve never seen the benefit. I still blog, of course.

    I just bought a new 5.1 surround sound speaker system. It took more time than was reasonable to narrow down my choice, especially given the vast number of reviews out there. The trouble was the difficulty in figuring out which reviews to trust.

    Hey, this sounds like a reputation system…

    This comment was originally posted on http://theappslab.com/)”>Oracle AppsLab

  • http://oraclenerd.com/ chet

    Security is definitely a concern with FB, especially after going here per Mr. Topper’s tweet. Then, ironically, allowing the application access. My information didn’t disturb me all that much, by my friends information included? WTF is up with that?

    I can’t conceptually wrap my head around the reputation system yet, so I won’t argue that it’s a better paradiggem.

    SM jumping the shark though? Stop it. It’s just getting started. Yeah it gets loud and noisy, but you just change the channel. I don’t use FB much anymore, but it is nice to catch up once in a while with old friends. I follow about 100 people and trim that list once a month or so but my completely unobjective “annoyance” factor.

    Perhaps the phrase describing it has jumped the shark, but really? Never in our history have we had access to so much in such a short period of time. It will take a while (relatively speaking of course) to learn how to filter it.

    The ability to catch up with old friends so easily will not go away. Whether it is FB or someone new.

    The ability to get help on work related stuff so freaking easily will not go away anytime soon.

    The ability to get free stuff will not go away anytime soon (but it will get harder I am sure).

    That’s what SM is to me. I don’t connect with just anyone just because. I don’t follow people just because they decide to follow me. I don’t accept all friend requests on FB.

    It’s in our control. Especially us…as we have a better understanding of how to navigate the security aspects you speak of. A redesign would be nice (of FB). I love simplicity. Perhaps FB has just gotten to big? They’re trying to solve problems for everyone…but I digress (sorry).

    No, SM hasn’t jumped the shark. It’s just evolving.

    BTW, can I get in on that social analytics stuff? That has to be some pretty cool data.

    This comment was originally posted on http://theappslab.com/)”>Oracle AppsLab

  • http://twitter.com/kottarainen Joonas Linkola

    I never got on the Facebook bandwagon, mainly because I got so tired of all the hoopla and hype around it a couple of years ago. (After that came the security hazards, CIA-is-watching-you warnings and the rest of the tinfoil hat headaches, so there was even less incentive to join.)

    Twitter is (still) nice, mainly as a news and opinion aggregator from people of interest. It seems this idea hasn’t catched on yet everywhere, most of my friends (technical or otherwise) still think it’s only about people reporting on eating a cheese sandwich. Following on keywords or hashtags is becoming quite useless due to the amount of traffic, especially on popular topics (searching on #michaeljackson during the funeral was quite amusing).

    A while ago I started to write a blog post about how the novelty value of social media has worn off but couldn’t bother finishing the post (oh the irony).

    Are we in the hype cycle’s Trough of Disillusionment, or already farther than that?

    This comment was originally posted on http://theappslab.com/)”>Oracle AppsLab

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dave-Goldstick/502749470 Dave Goldstick

    If a given service continues to provide value, it will persist. Facebook, Twitter, etc can be noisy but I find that I can make sense of the noise through various filtering methods. At the other end of the spectrum, I enjoy the real time searching and zeitgeist that Twitter enables — which basically culls information from noise. And now you guys are investigating deeper analytics. If you don’t find value in social media, why do you blog, tweet, etc?

    While the mainstreaming of social media may cause it lose some of its sex appeal – I don’t see it going away. TV has been around for a while — it didn’t exactly go to pot.

    Fun, shiny-thing chasers will continue to do just that. And because of it, social media will continue to evolve. Evolution, evolution, evolution, revolution…

    This comment was originally posted on http://theappslab.com/)”>Oracle AppsLab

  • http://theappslab.com/ Jake

    Yeah, reputation makes social useful b/c a) you know who people really are and what they, unlike forums, and b) you can measure them against others and apply trust or not.

    This comment was originally posted on http://theappslab.com/)”>Oracle AppsLab

  • http://theappslab.com/ Jake

    The problem is that FB is too big, and Twitter is getting that way too. FB’s size is reflected in their gnarly privacy settings. The post I linked above has some interesting points, chief among them, sometimes reconnecting isn’t all that great.

    I think we’re having an introvert vs. extrovert argument here. I know there’s value in social, but I want to mine that value now. Ideally that will help me tone down the noise too.

    You’re right though, we’re just at the beginning, so it’s early.

    This comment was originally posted on http://theappslab.com/)”>Oracle AppsLab

  • http://theappslab.com/ Jake

    It depends on the person. We may be feeling like the party’s over, but the bell curve is just catching the wave. This is the best time to mine the data and use it, shortening the hype cycle.

    It’s tough to keep everyone engaged. That’s a problem that few have solved.

    This comment was originally posted on http://theappslab.com/)”>Oracle AppsLab

  • http://theappslab.com/ Jake

    I blog because I control it, the noise level, the content, and it also provides a record. As I mention, I’ve been using FB much less than a couple years ago and Twitter less recently. It’s not that I don’t find *any* value; it’s just waning as the noise increases.

    You don’t agree that, especially in the enterprise, analytics and reputation add tons of value to the steam of information coming out of social systems?

    That’s the next evolution. Not more bells and whistles.

    This comment was originally posted on http://theappslab.com/)”>Oracle AppsLab

  • hilarious

    it sounds like you lack focus and follow-through. the point of a tool is to use it to your advantage, not to admire how shiny it is

    This comment was originally posted on http://theappslab.com/)”>Oracle AppsLab

  • http://theappslab.com/ Jake

    If you read here, you’ll know we’ve been investigating this space and working with social platforms internally and externally for several years. I think that’s a good indicator of focus and follow-through.

    I understand the point and the advantages. In fact, I’m trying to find new ones, e.g. analytics and reputation, to enhance the tools.

    Social has reached a point of diminishing returns due to noise, but since I still think it’s useful, I’m trying to find ways to make it more valuable.

    This comment was originally posted on http://theappslab.com/)”>Oracle AppsLab

  • http://www.facebook.com/home.php innov8ion

    So would you say that if you could more effectively filter out the noise, that you would be better able to harness the value of social media?

    I don’t Tweet a lot (I’m more of a consumer), but I like the ability to create TweetDeck groups and populate them w/ people that mainly tweet in a given genre and have good reputations. Also I find value in tracking topics on Twitter over time and the zeitgeist paradigm (in multiple levels of a hierarchy perhaps.) Strategies like this help make Twitter less noisy for me.

    And I fully agree with you. Social media is growing in the enterprise but its uptake may slow unless we can make better sense of all the data being spewed at us. Therefore, it’s critical that more emphasis in social media software be placed on making sense of this spew. I like where you’re going with filters, analytics, reputation, etc and am interested in the discusion forward.

    This comment was originally posted on http://theappslab.com/)”>Oracle AppsLab

  • http://theappslab.com/ Jake

    Totally, I think reputation is the next step to filtering. I also use TweetDeck for the same reasons you do. Its groups have always been a major win for me.

    Analytics are for the community manager/development team to understand what engages people. We have a lot of data, and it’s high time we use it for something.

    The plan is to move on these twin tracks, but you never know what will happen.

    This comment was originally posted on http://theappslab.com/)”>Oracle AppsLab

  • http://theappslab.com/ Jake

    Almost forgot, chasing shiny objects is kind of critical in a lab.

    This comment was originally posted on http://theappslab.com/)”>Oracle AppsLab

  • http://ethanbloch.com ethan

    On the topic of measuring influence on Fbook, anyone see anything / tools / apps trying to do this? There's a ton for Twitter (makes sense with the liberal API and all), but have you seen anything re: measuring influence, reach and reputation on Facebook?

  • http://theappslab.com Jake

    I think the project Ben Turner, who commented above, is working on is for FB, but I don't know if it's specifically meant for reputation.

    I haven't seen much reputation applied to FB, and due to its origins, not sure reputation makes much sense. FB has never been a casual meet-new-people place, focusing on existing relationships instead. Therefore, reputation means virtually nil on FB.

    There are some apps on FB that measure networks by depth, strong/weak ties, etc. but they are focused on individuals. So, unless you display your network analysis, no one can see it.

    I think an outside source has to use FB data as part of a reputation engine. FB wouldn't see this as a core of their product, unless they move to a discovery model more like Twitters.

  • http://ethanbloch.com ethan

    Agree re: reputation from inside of Facebook. But having stats i.e. when I share a piece of content = this much engagement is powerful. This is more influence than rep. based.

    Thoughts?

  • http://theappslab.com Jake

    I guess I'm not sure if/how FB tracks that type of metric. I suppose they could surface pageviews or clicks/impressions for items you share, but based on the gen pop of FB, would they invest in a feature that isn't very germane to their base users?

    Somehow I doubt the average FB user cares about engagement as a metric. Probably just wants that old college buddy to see the funny drunk girl picture. I also think engagement doesn't apply well to FB b/c the network is closed by design, whereas Twitter and blogs have open networks. Tough to measure network vs. network.

  • http://theappslab.com Jake

    I guess I'm not sure if/how FB tracks that type of metric. I suppose they could surface pageviews or clicks/impressions for items you share, but based on the gen pop of FB, would they invest in a feature that isn't very germane to their base users?

    Somehow I doubt the average FB user cares about engagement as a metric. Probably just wants that old college buddy to see the funny drunk girl picture. I also think engagement doesn't apply well to FB b/c the network is closed by design, whereas Twitter and blogs have open networks. Tough to measure network vs. network.