Bloggers at OpenWorld

October 12th, 2007 92 Comments

I’m happy to announce that Oracle OpenWorld this year will be open to bloggers for the first time.

Oracle has extended an invitation to leaders in the blogging community, who can come experience the pageantry of an entire city block covered by a huge tent (oh and the conference). Qualified bloggers can register for OpenWorld as “Press“. Your registration will go to a wonderfully helpful person in PR (who, along with Justin, has been instrumental in getting this done, but wishes to remain anonymous) who will check out your blog to make sure you’re legit and set you up with a pass.

We’re not picking up travel costs or expenses, sorry. This will keep you impartial. If you see me, I’ll give you a pat on the back, how’s that instead? Vinnie has convinced me (in comments) that the T/E cost is more to cover hardship on investment by the blogger, through lost time and potential revenue, than a carrot for attending. Eddie’s picture doesn’t even do the tent justice, but it gives you an idea of how big a conference OpenWorld really is.

You will get access to the entire week’s events (November 11-15), but in case you’re wondering, here are a few that might be interesting.

There are so many sessions planned, plus acres of demo ground space and exhibits that I’m sure you’ll find plenty to do. Last year was a blast, something like 40,000 people attended. This year will be bigger and better.

See you there.


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92 Responses to “Bloggers at OpenWorld”

  1. Om Malik | Phil Cooke and The Change Revolution Says:

    for its customers and employees, deploying a customer wiki with WetPaint — even issuing press passes to bloggers. Though bloggers have undoubtedly attended the conference in other capacities in the past, this is the first time Oracle (ORCL) hasinvited bloggers as press to OpenWorld. About 20 bloggers took the company up on its offer; scheduled activities included meeting with the Oracle President Charles Phillips. Oracle is by no means the first big software company to invite bloggers. SAP (SAP) holds a blogger

  2. Secure your most important technology asset - Database — Get a good night sleep Says:

    Bloggers are gearing up for OpenWorld next week, including the somewhatcontroversialpaid-for bloggers invited by Oracle. Here is a sampling of what they are saying: Andrew Clarke – “I think the key thing is to make the best use of the opportunities for personal contact. A lot of the conference resources will be available as

  3. Eye on Oracle — A SearchOracle.com Blog Says:

    Bloggers are gearing up for OpenWorld next week, including the somewhatcontroversialpaid-for bloggers invited by Oracle. Here is a sampling of what they are saying: Andrew Clarke – “I think the key thing is to make the best use of the opportunities for personal contact. A lot of the conference resources will be available as

  4. SpendMatters Says:

    When I first sawthis headline, I was excited to learn that Oracle had finally decided to embrace the blogosphere and invite at least some of us to OpenWorld. But when I dug below the surface, it turns out Oracle’s invitation was shoddy indeed. For example, Oracle continues to pay

  5. Stuart Henshall’s Weblog Says:

    hopper today. This is one of those posts that was almost finished but never posted dated October 18th. This is the point where I really began thinking conference organizers need help working through the issue. At the time I just went “What!”. [IMG]Oracle AppsLab » Bloggers at OpenWorldI’m happy to announce that Oracle OpenWorld this year will be open to bloggers for the first time. I’d read and really liked the Oracle blogger “Can of Worms” story. The comments on this post and

  6. OraNA :: Oracle News Aggregator Says:

    [IMG]If there was any remaining doubt that this blog has slipped into Seinfeld territory, I am sealing the deal by blogging about the comments on a seemingly innocent post from Friday called “Bloggers at OpenWorld“. The issue at hand is about providing recompense for time lost/expenses incurred for attendees. Here are the arguments in no particular order: For For some bloggers like Vinnie Mirchandani, the time and travel associated with attending OpenWorld

  7. The Feature Says:

    Center in San Francisco. It is also that time of the year when Oracle professionals have to decide whether to go to San Francisco, or not, and what to expect if we go there. This is my first time at the OOW. Oracle made my decision somewhat easier byinviting Oracle bloggersto attend the conference. I appreciate the gesture and the recognition of a vibrant blogging community. Take this as my first disclosure for anything I write from the OOW and know that Oracle waived my registration fee.

  8. vinnie mirchandani Says:

    Jake, this is a very positive development. Kudos for pushing this with Oracle.

    In the interest of transparency and debate – two core principles in our mutual blogging fraternity, allow me to ask some questions/make some comments

    a) when Jeff Nolan then at SAP first invited bloggers to an event over 2 years ago he wrote a post only half-jokingly that it was like inviting terrorists who could be bringing in nuclear briefcases. In turn I wrote something along the lines of “we come in transparency” substituting transparency for peace – we did not know either whether it was an ambush. Don’t underestimate the fear/uncertainty factor in your management. Similarly, don’t just bring in bloggers and expect them to just mingle.

    b)In a post I wrote Thursday, several Oracle employees have commented. I know because they are logged with Oracle IP addresses. Yet they are all anon and in tone suggest they are independent of Oracle. Your PR colleague above also chooses to be anon. Will we also encounter nervous employees scared to talk to bloggers at the conference?

    c) the registration site clubs us with press. While we respect our media and industry analyst colleagues, the reality is we are a very different breed. Most of us are practitioners who happen to blog about topics of our specialization.

    d) Many bloggers run their own small businesses. They would be investing 2-3 days of unpaid time at the conference. In turn Oracle should at least pick up expenses. Most bloggers do not have corporate travel budgets to draw from. Not sure your reimbursing expenses will affect impartiality. While I appreciate the invite I for one am having a hard time justifying an investment in time AND travel expenses. I may wait for input from my local blogging colleagues whether it was worthwhile and then come next year.

    Hope you take this as positive input as you prep for the conference. Hope to see you soon. Regards.

  9. vinnie mirchandani Says:

    Jake, this is a very positive development. Kudos for pushing this with Oracle.

    In the interest of transparency and debate – two core principles in our mutual blogging fraternity, allow me to ask some questions/make some comments

    a) when Jeff Nolan then at SAP first invited bloggers to an event over 2 years ago he wrote a post only half-jokingly that it was like inviting terrorists who could be bringing in nuclear briefcases. In turn I wrote something along the lines of “we come in transparency” substituting transparency for peace – we did not know either whether it was an ambush. Don’t underestimate the fear/uncertainty factor in your management. Similarly, don’t just bring in bloggers and expect them to just mingle.

    b)In a post I wrote Thursday, several Oracle employees have commented. I know because they are logged with Oracle IP addresses. Yet they are all anon and in tone suggest they are independent of Oracle. Your PR colleague above also chooses to be anon. Will we also encounter nervous employees scared to talk to bloggers at the conference?

    c) the registration site clubs us with press. While we respect our media and industry analyst colleagues, the reality is we are a very different breed. Most of us are practitioners who happen to blog about topics of our specialization.

    d) Many bloggers run their own small businesses. They would be investing 2-3 days of unpaid time at the conference. In turn Oracle should at least pick up expenses. Most bloggers do not have corporate travel budgets to draw from. Not sure your reimbursing expenses will affect impartiality. While I appreciate the invite I for one am having a hard time justifying an investment in time AND travel expenses. I may wait for input from my local blogging colleagues whether it was worthwhile and then come next year.

    Hope you take this as positive input as you prep for the conference. Hope to see you soon. Regards.

  10. Jake Says:

    Justin really deserves more credit. He’s been at this for longer than we have. My thoughts on your comments:

    a) I am a little worried that we got this together just at the wire, without a really compelling program for bloggers. However, it’s a tipping point for us. If nothing else, it’s a chance to meet and humanize the relationship with Oracle, good or bad.

    We will learn lessons, and I aim to make those lessons productive. Oh, and I never underestimate my management :)

    b) Wow, I read your blog every day, but somehow this slipped past my Reader. My PR colleague is a different case. I asked this person first and (s)he declined. The people in your comments were lurking, and now you’ve drawn them into the conversation. It’s tough to make the jump into full disclosure mode, but hey, baby steps (as I told Dennis over Facebook).

    Yes, you will encounter some nervous employees, based on your credential. It is what it is. Oracle wants to protect its assets. I hope you won’t be discouraged or slam them too hard in your posts.

    c) Yup, I think this is a function of getting this down at the wire. I know it’s a bummer for you guys, and it will be on the list for next year (or next international OOW).

    d) My comment was somewhat tainted, for obvious reasons. From here, it looks like SAP is buying your loyalty by globe-trotting you guys to Sapphires.

    I hadn’t considered the lost time/income vs. reward angle. So, point made. Frankly, it’s so late in the game, that I’m hoping locals like Jeff can make it, and beyond that, any out-of-towners would be gravy.

    I appreciate the input. Change takes time.

  11. Jake Says:

    Justin really deserves more credit. He’s been at this for longer than we have. My thoughts on your comments:

    a) I am a little worried that we got this together just at the wire, without a really compelling program for bloggers. However, it’s a tipping point for us. If nothing else, it’s a chance to meet and humanize the relationship with Oracle, good or bad.

    We will learn lessons, and I aim to make those lessons productive. Oh, and I never underestimate my management :)

    b) Wow, I read your blog every day, but somehow this slipped past my Reader. My PR colleague is a different case. I asked this person first and (s)he declined. The people in your comments were lurking, and now you’ve drawn them into the conversation. It’s tough to make the jump into full disclosure mode, but hey, baby steps (as I told Dennis over Facebook).

    Yes, you will encounter some nervous employees, based on your credential. It is what it is. Oracle wants to protect its assets. I hope you won’t be discouraged or slam them too hard in your posts.

    c) Yup, I think this is a function of getting this down at the wire. I know it’s a bummer for you guys, and it will be on the list for next year (or next international OOW).

    d) My comment was somewhat tainted, for obvious reasons. From here, it looks like SAP is buying your loyalty by globe-trotting you guys to Sapphires.

    I hadn’t considered the lost time/income vs. reward angle. So, point made. Frankly, it’s so late in the game, that I’m hoping locals like Jeff can make it, and beyond that, any out-of-towners would be gravy.

    I appreciate the input. Change takes time.

  12. vinnie mirchandani Says:

    Jake, if you read my blog on a regular basis how can you say “loyal” and “SAP” in the same sentence?. Here are my posts which contain the word SAP – they cringe at most everything I write

    http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=sap&domains=dealarchitect.typepad.com&sitesearch=dealarchitect.typepad.com&btnG=+Google+Search+I

    I fly just about every single week for my CIO clients. I have done 8 intl trips this year. An economy ticket to the SAP Vienna conf is no way to buy my loyalty. Last 3 events SAP has invited me to (and always offered to cover expenses) I have not been able to attend due to client commitments.

    If I can find a client reason to come to Bay area I will try and attend. If not, some other event…thanks for at least thinking of us

    regards

  13. vinnie mirchandani Says:

    Jake, if you read my blog on a regular basis how can you say “loyal” and “SAP” in the same sentence?. Here are my posts which contain the word SAP – they cringe at most everything I write

    http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=sap&domains=dealarchitect.typepad.com&sitesearch=dealarchitect.typepad.com&btnG=+Google+Search+I

    I fly just about every single week for my CIO clients. I have done 8 intl trips this year. An economy ticket to the SAP Vienna conf is no way to buy my loyalty. Last 3 events SAP has invited me to (and always offered to cover expenses) I have not been able to attend due to client commitments.

    If I can find a client reason to come to Bay area I will try and attend. If not, some other event…thanks for at least thinking of us

    regards

  14. Marius Says:

    Thank you Justin for making this happen. Will be interesting to read what the bloggers have to say.

  15. Marius Says:

    Thank you Justin for making this happen. Will be interesting to read what the bloggers have to say.

  16. vinnie mirchandani Says:

    Jake, one more point – at least my Enterprise Irregular bloggers, while they have different business models than mine, all travel plenty. A trip aint going to influence them much. The reason for asking is is it’s fair. We invest our time, you pick up the expenses. Not likely this time around as you say…consider it for future.

  17. vinnie mirchandani Says:

    Jake, one more point – at least my Enterprise Irregular bloggers, while they have different business models than mine, all travel plenty. A trip aint going to influence them much. The reason for asking is is it’s fair. We invest our time, you pick up the expenses. Not likely this time around as you say…consider it for future.

  18. Jake Says:

    How’s this:
    SAP attempts to buy your loyalty.
    I got you, SAP and loyalty in the same sentence. You’re right, though, and the point is made, and just for clarification’s sake, I don’t think SAP is trying to buy loyalty with trips and expenses. However, it sets a precedent for that is uncomfortable.

    It was a hard sell to get bloggers included at all. Justin was on this for a long time, and we were able to help him tip the balance.
    I think this event will tell a lot about what happens next year and into the future. I hope you and others can make it.

  19. Jake Says:

    How’s this:
    SAP attempts to buy your loyalty.
    I got you, SAP and loyalty in the same sentence. You’re right, though, and the point is made, and just for clarification’s sake, I don’t think SAP is trying to buy loyalty with trips and expenses. However, it sets a precedent for that is uncomfortable.

    It was a hard sell to get bloggers included at all. Justin was on this for a long time, and we were able to help him tip the balance.
    I think this event will tell a lot about what happens next year and into the future. I hope you and others can make it.

  20. vinnie mirchandani Says:

    Jake, you and I need to be out doing more fun stuff on Saturday -)

    But please …when I was a Gartner analyst Oracle always picked up our expenses. It was not uncomfortable then?

    Your head of AR has been heard to say “I punish analysts who don’t toe the line” which means no access to your execs, conferences etc.

    Oracle knows how to play the influence game better than most others. I would suggest the reason Justin and you had a hard time selling bloggers is we are a wild card.

    Like I said earlier – we carry nuclear briefcases -)

  21. vinnie mirchandani Says:

    Jake, you and I need to be out doing more fun stuff on Saturday -)

    But please …when I was a Gartner analyst Oracle always picked up our expenses. It was not uncomfortable then?

    Your head of AR has been heard to say “I punish analysts who don’t toe the line” which means no access to your execs, conferences etc.

    Oracle knows how to play the influence game better than most others. I would suggest the reason Justin and you had a hard time selling bloggers is we are a wild card.

    Like I said earlier – we carry nuclear briefcases -)

  22. Jake Says:

    I took a break at least and got out of the house.

    By this point from reading here, it should be clear that a) I have very little influence and b) I’m not very good at playing the game.

    You have hit the nail though, bloggers are hard (maybe impossible) to control.

  23. Jake Says:

    I took a break at least and got out of the house.

    By this point from reading here, it should be clear that a) I have very little influence and b) I’m not very good at playing the game.

    You have hit the nail though, bloggers are hard (maybe impossible) to control.

  24. vinnie mirchandani Says:

    Jake, You dont need to control us, you need to communicate with us and … you are qualified just fine to do latter…

  25. vinnie mirchandani Says:

    Jake, You dont need to control us, you need to communicate with us and … you are qualified just fine to do latter…

  26. Peter K Says:

    I will wade in here. I think it is great that Oracle decided to extend an invite to bloggers who blog about Oracle and its technologies by providing them with a Press pass and as such they should be treated as “Press” and that when they blog about OOW, they need to provide disclosure that Oracle “paid” for their conference fees.

    That is, they can attend the conference for free but will have to pick up their own travel and lodging expenses. If not, it is pretty hard to convince readers that these bloggers are going to be impartial knowing that Oracle paid for their trip. Take a look at the amount of negative comments regarding the AMD/Acer Laptop giveaway to selected bloggers. Why? The main reason is that if you blog positively about Oracle and its products (even if deservely so), there will always the lingering doubt that it was done because you have been “paid” to do so. Would you trust any studies commissioned by Microsoft/Oracle/IBM (any organization) where the outcome of the studies favours the sponsor in question? That’s advertisment and marketing.

    I think what is important here is FULL DISCLOSURE so that your readers understand that your blog entry was made under the following conditions (e.g. Oracle paid for …, etc).

    Vinnie, I’m not sure what the arrangement was between Oracle and Gartner and I’m distressed that it was the case (I just came from the Gartner Symposium in Orlando) but it sure would cause me pause in terms of Gartner’s recommendations if they favour Oracle over others. Luckily in all the sessions that I have attended last week, there were no indications that Gartner prefers a vendor over others.

  27. Peter K Says:

    I will wade in here. I think it is great that Oracle decided to extend an invite to bloggers who blog about Oracle and its technologies by providing them with a Press pass and as such they should be treated as “Press” and that when they blog about OOW, they need to provide disclosure that Oracle “paid” for their conference fees.

    That is, they can attend the conference for free but will have to pick up their own travel and lodging expenses. If not, it is pretty hard to convince readers that these bloggers are going to be impartial knowing that Oracle paid for their trip. Take a look at the amount of negative comments regarding the AMD/Acer Laptop giveaway to selected bloggers. Why? The main reason is that if you blog positively about Oracle and its products (even if deservely so), there will always the lingering doubt that it was done because you have been “paid” to do so. Would you trust any studies commissioned by Microsoft/Oracle/IBM (any organization) where the outcome of the studies favours the sponsor in question? That’s advertisment and marketing.

    I think what is important here is FULL DISCLOSURE so that your readers understand that your blog entry was made under the following conditions (e.g. Oracle paid for …, etc).

    Vinnie, I’m not sure what the arrangement was between Oracle and Gartner and I’m distressed that it was the case (I just came from the Gartner Symposium in Orlando) but it sure would cause me pause in terms of Gartner’s recommendations if they favour Oracle over others. Luckily in all the sessions that I have attended last week, there were no indications that Gartner prefers a vendor over others.

  28. vinnie mirchandani Says:

    Peter, I would have no problems disclosing what Oracle paid for my travel if Oracle disclosed my firm’s investment in unbilled consulting for those 3 days at the event. Transparency is good.

    By the same token I would like to see Gartner analysts disclose how much it makes from Oracle in subscriptions, consulting, events, other revenues.

    Transparency is good all the way around…I think the more people realize that the largest Gartner revenue accounts are vendors, the more they can evaluate the objectivity of its own analysis. I would personally like to see Gartner become much more independent as I wrote below

    http://dealarchitect.typepad.com/deal_architect/2007/10/the-stockholm-s.html

    PS – I understand Oracle is actually paying for travel for some media from Europe…so it does not appear to have a consistent policy on that.

  29. vinnie mirchandani Says:

    Peter, I would have no problems disclosing what Oracle paid for my travel if Oracle disclosed my firm’s investment in unbilled consulting for those 3 days at the event. Transparency is good.

    By the same token I would like to see Gartner analysts disclose how much it makes from Oracle in subscriptions, consulting, events, other revenues.

    Transparency is good all the way around…I think the more people realize that the largest Gartner revenue accounts are vendors, the more they can evaluate the objectivity of its own analysis. I would personally like to see Gartner become much more independent as I wrote below

    http://dealarchitect.typepad.com/deal_architect/2007/10/the-stockholm-s.html

    PS – I understand Oracle is actually paying for travel for some media from Europe…so it does not appear to have a consistent policy on that.

  30. vinnie mirchandani Says:

    Jake, I appreciate you trying to reflect our dialog by editing your post – but did I use the word “hardship”?

    You and Oracle really need to get to know independent bloggers better – they are not charity cases. They run small businesses but many do very well.

    Having said that it is an investment decision – we invest 3 days in foregone revenues at your conference, Oracle should be willing to pick up expenses. It’s not like Oracle is a “hardship” case either. It’s what would be fair.

  31. vinnie mirchandani Says:

    Jake, I appreciate you trying to reflect our dialog by editing your post – but did I use the word “hardship”?

    You and Oracle really need to get to know independent bloggers better – they are not charity cases. They run small businesses but many do very well.

    Having said that it is an investment decision – we invest 3 days in foregone revenues at your conference, Oracle should be willing to pick up expenses. It’s not like Oracle is a “hardship” case either. It’s what would be fair.

  32. Jake Says:

    Now you’re just being picky. I think the sentiment is correct, i.e. lost revenue is a hardship. I will change it to investment or something.

  33. Jake Says:

    Now you’re just being picky. I think the sentiment is correct, i.e. lost revenue is a hardship. I will change it to investment or something.

  34. vinnie mirchandani Says:

    thank you. Jake, no more comments I promise. I want to invite you to pick on my posts – any time – promise me you will use your real name, though -)

  35. vinnie mirchandani Says:

    thank you. Jake, no more comments I promise. I want to invite you to pick on my posts – any time – promise me you will use your real name, though -)

  36. mkrigsman Says:

    Jake,

    Bloggers are indeed hard to control, but engaging them in conversation at least means your side of the story will be told.

    Look at my posts on ZDNet regarding SAP, for example: they are critical but balanced. When I need information, there’s a single point of contact where I can call and be assured of a timely response. That goes a long way to ensuring the SAP story gets printed.

    I should also mention SAP isn’t alone in reaching out to Enterprise Irregular bloggers. Include in that group Cap Gemini, Lawson, CA, and others.

    By the way, I wasn’t invited to OpenWorld. Given that I blog on enterprise software for ZDNet and am a member of the Enterprise Irregulars, hope you will consider extending an invitation next time around.

    Michael Krigsman
    http://blogs.zdnet.com/projectfailures

  37. Michael Krigsman Says:

    Jake,

    Bloggers are indeed hard to control, but engaging them in conversation at least means your side of the story will be told.

    Look at my posts on ZDNet regarding SAP, for example: they are critical but balanced. When I need information, there’s a single point of contact where I can call and be assured of a timely response. That goes a long way to ensuring the SAP story gets printed.

    I should also mention SAP isn’t alone in reaching out to Enterprise Irregular bloggers. Include in that group Cap Gemini, Lawson, CA, and others.

    By the way, I wasn’t invited to OpenWorld. Given that I blog on enterprise software for ZDNet and am a member of the Enterprise Irregulars, hope you will consider extending an invitation next time around.

    Michael Krigsman
    http://blogs.zdnet.com/projectfailures

  38. Jake Says:

    Michael: You were on my list of suggestions, and I was told that list was solid for invites. I actually am trying to find you a person to talk to about ASU at OOW.

    Registration is open. The process for registering is in my post. I am hoping you can come.

  39. Jake Says:

    Michael: You were on my list of suggestions, and I was told that list was solid for invites. I actually am trying to find you a person to talk to about ASU at OOW.

    Registration is open. The process for registering is in my post. I am hoping you can come.

  40. Justin Kestelyn Says:

    Vinnie, as I mentioned in my own post on this subject (http://blogs.oracle.com/otn/2007/10/12#a1108), this is a major step for Oracle (I’m sure you’d agree). A year ago, the possibility of this development was almost unthinkable.

    I see your point re: investment of time, but Peter K is right on the money re “lingering doubts”. I spent a previous career as a journalist and accepting T&E to attend a conference was anathema to avoid even the perception of quid pro quo. For some reason the same standards don’t apply in the blogosphere, but perhaps they should. (I am not familiar with the nature of such standards in the AR world.)

    Yes, the trade off is that only a fraction of invitees will be able to attend. But in my personal view the trade off is a worthwhile one.

  41. Justin Kestelyn Says:

    Vinnie, as I mentioned in my own post on this subject (http://blogs.oracle.com/otn/2007/10/12#a1108), this is a major step for Oracle (I’m sure you’d agree). A year ago, the possibility of this development was almost unthinkable.

    I see your point re: investment of time, but Peter K is right on the money re “lingering doubts”. I spent a previous career as a journalist and accepting T&E to attend a conference was anathema to avoid even the perception of quid pro quo. For some reason the same standards don’t apply in the blogosphere, but perhaps they should. (I am not familiar with the nature of such standards in the AR world.)

    Yes, the trade off is that only a fraction of invitees will be able to attend. But in my personal view the trade off is a worthwhile one.

  42. mkrigsman Says:

    Jake,

    Not sure if I can come, but would definitely be interested to talk with someone about ASU. I continue to think the ASU implementation approach has potential, but that it was poorly executed. However, this is purely an external view and have no information to back up that assertion. I would love to learn about the challenges that caused them to make the decisions they did. Clearly, they had a strategy, I just don’t understand it.

    Thanks for contributing my name to the list.

    Michael

  43. Michael Krigsman Says:

    Jake,

    Not sure if I can come, but would definitely be interested to talk with someone about ASU. I continue to think the ASU implementation approach has potential, but that it was poorly executed. However, this is purely an external view and have no information to back up that assertion. I would love to learn about the challenges that caused them to make the decisions they did. Clearly, they had a strategy, I just don’t understand it.

    Thanks for contributing my name to the list.

    Michael

  44. vinnie mirchandani Says:

    Jake, sorry – i can move discussion to my blog…do not mean to abuse your real estate…

    Justin, can Oracle (if not you) disclose what you pay Gartner, Forrester, and the media in subscriptions, advertising, events each year? ..and that does not in your mind cause a perception of quid pro quo?

    I would bet you could fly and lodge and feed a 1,000 bloggers to the conf for less.

    …I am also told you are paying expenses of at least some European journalists

    Look, it’s your conference and you can decide who you invite and what you reimburse or not. But please, let’s not invoke independence…

    to me it’s an investment in lost fees AND travel expenses I cannot justify. Other bloggers you have invited may have a different threshold…

  45. vinnie mirchandani Says:

    Jake, sorry – i can move discussion to my blog…do not mean to abuse your real estate…

    Justin, can Oracle (if not you) disclose what you pay Gartner, Forrester, and the media in subscriptions, advertising, events each year? ..and that does not in your mind cause a perception of quid pro quo?

    I would bet you could fly and lodge and feed a 1,000 bloggers to the conf for less.

    …I am also told you are paying expenses of at least some European journalists

    Look, it’s your conference and you can decide who you invite and what you reimburse or not. But please, let’s not invoke independence…

    to me it’s an investment in lost fees AND travel expenses I cannot justify. Other bloggers you have invited may have a different threshold…

  46. Jake Says:

    No need to move the discussion. I think the history of comments is important to maintain in a single location, especially as new people weigh in Monday. Apparently, the Enterprise Irregulars are watching with interest, and I got wind that Dennis is putting his two cents in tomorrow via ZDN.

  47. Jake Says:

    No need to move the discussion. I think the history of comments is important to maintain in a single location, especially as new people weigh in Monday. Apparently, the Enterprise Irregulars are watching with interest, and I got wind that Dennis is putting his two cents in tomorrow via ZDN.

  48. vinnie mirchandani Says:

    Disclosure – Mike above and I are both members of Enterprise Irregulars. Your blog was discussed a few times in the EI group this weekend. And yes, Dennis is posting on ZDNet tomorrow.

  49. vinnie mirchandani Says:

    Disclosure – Mike above and I are both members of Enterprise Irregulars. Your blog was discussed a few times in the EI group this weekend. And yes, Dennis is posting on ZDNet tomorrow.

  50. Jake Says:

    You’re not disclosing this to me are you? I’m already aware of these things. Looking forward to Dennis’ post.

  51. Jake Says:

    You’re not disclosing this to me are you? I’m already aware of these things. Looking forward to Dennis’ post.

  52. Irregular Enterprise mobile edition Says:

    [...] to its Oracle OpenWorld event. Yay – they get the value of independent analysis…or do they? Check Jake Karamuto’s blog on the topic: Oracle has extended an invitation to leaders in the blogging community, who can come [...]

  53. mkrigsman Says:

    Jake, Check out this post for a great example of how a blogger can work with a software vendor:

    http://blogs.zdnet.com/projectfailures/?p=436

    SAP was really helpful, open, and forthcoming in my
    requests for information, making senior folks available as needed. On the flip side, I committed to write a balanced story. It’s a fair trade, in my opinion.

    Nothing would please me more than to get inside some of the Oracle stories, so my reporting can be more accurate and insightful. I fully recognize you are pushing this inside Oracle, so please don’t infer these comments as being critical of you.

    I think Dennis Howlett’s post on ZDNet really gets at the same issue, although he expressed it in far stronger terms:

    http://blogs.zdnet.com/Howlett/?p=201

    W

  54. Michael Krigsman Says:

    Jake, Check out this post for a great example of how a blogger can work with a software vendor:

    http://blogs.zdnet.com/projectfailures/?p=436

    SAP was really helpful, open, and forthcoming in my
    requests for information, making senior folks available as needed. On the flip side, I committed to write a balanced story. It’s a fair trade, in my opinion.

    Nothing would please me more than to get inside some of the Oracle stories, so my reporting can be more accurate and insightful. I fully recognize you are pushing this inside Oracle, so please don’t infer these comments as being critical of you.

    I think Dennis Howlett’s post on ZDNet really gets at the same issue, although he expressed it in far stronger terms:

    http://blogs.zdnet.com/Howlett/?p=201

    W

  55. Justin Kestelyn Says:

    Vinnie, the analyst industry and the trade press advertising industry are in the business of accepting money in exchange for ink; bloggers (ostensibly) are not. That’s the difference.

  56. Justin Kestelyn Says:

    Vinnie, the analyst industry and the trade press advertising industry are in the business of accepting money in exchange for ink; bloggers (ostensibly) are not. That’s the difference.

  57. mkrigsman Says:

    Justin,

    The fundamental issue relates to integrity, honesty, and disclosing conflicts of interest and payments.

    Your comment implies that bloggers are (or should be) more honest than analysts and trade reporters. Care to expand on that?

    Michael Krigsman
    ZDNet blogger (http://blogs.zdnet.com/projectfailures)

  58. Michael Krigsman Says:

    Justin,

    The fundamental issue relates to integrity, honesty, and disclosing conflicts of interest and payments.

    Your comment implies that bloggers are (or should be) more honest than analysts and trade reporters. Care to expand on that?

    Michael Krigsman
    ZDNet blogger (http://blogs.zdnet.com/projectfailures)

  59. Justin Kestelyn Says:

    Michael – it’s not a question of more/less honest; it’s a question of perception. Analysts who accept money are perceived to be credible; journalists are not–regardless of whatever the reality may be. Where should bloggers fit? With the latter, IMO.

  60. Justin Kestelyn Says:

    Michael – it’s not a question of more/less honest; it’s a question of perception. Analysts who accept money are perceived to be credible; journalists are not–regardless of whatever the reality may be. Where should bloggers fit? With the latter, IMO.

  61. Jake Says:

    Michael: I saw your post and am working internal channels to find someone to talk to you about ASU (as noted in comment 18), ideally at OOW, to which you are invited. I hope you’ll be able to make it.

  62. Jake Says:

    Michael: I saw your post and am working internal channels to find someone to talk to you about ASU (as noted in comment 18), ideally at OOW, to which you are invited. I hope you’ll be able to make it.

  63. vinnie mirchandani Says:

    Justin, I just declared myself an analyst again. Where’s my check?

  64. vinnie mirchandani Says:

    Justin, I just declared myself an analyst again. Where’s my check?

  65. mkrigsman Says:

    Justin: My blog is definitely analyst-oriented — I provide analysis and advice, rather than merely report events. Therefore, I’m ready to accept payment from Oracle, and promise I will disclose the client relationship to readers, ensuring intellectual honesty. Should you think I’m joking, rest assured I’m not.

  66. Michael Krigsman Says:

    Justin: My blog is definitely analyst-oriented — I provide analysis and advice, rather than merely report events. Therefore, I’m ready to accept payment from Oracle, and promise I will disclose the client relationship to readers, ensuring intellectual honesty. Should you think I’m joking, rest assured I’m not.

  67. deal architect : Oracle's Blogger Overtures Says:

    [...] to Oracle OpenWorld in San Francisco next month. But read Dennis Holwett’s post this morning and my dialog this weekend with two of Oracle’s sponsors for the initiative – Justin Kestelyn and Jake [...]

  68. Peter K Says:

    Michael/Vinnie,
    You guys are too funny. Analysts get the whole package paid for but press do not as it would be a conflict of interest.

    Justin, are you saying that the analysts who writes research pieces (say either Gartner or Forrester) with their “Magic Quadrant”, “Hype Wave” or whatever shows Oracle being in the “Leading Innovator and Implementor”, I should take with a grain of salt as they have been paid by Oracle to ensure their ranking whereas others who have been lumped into the lower quadrant did not forked out the required monies to buy the analyst’s “opinion and research”?

    That’s a good one that my CIO is going to have to reconsider paying our subscription fees to these research services for “PAID MARKETING”. Me thinks that I have to talk to my Gartner representative regarding getting my subscription fees back.

  69. Peter K Says:

    Michael/Vinnie,
    You guys are too funny. Analysts get the whole package paid for but press do not as it would be a conflict of interest.

    Justin, are you saying that the analysts who writes research pieces (say either Gartner or Forrester) with their “Magic Quadrant”, “Hype Wave” or whatever shows Oracle being in the “Leading Innovator and Implementor”, I should take with a grain of salt as they have been paid by Oracle to ensure their ranking whereas others who have been lumped into the lower quadrant did not forked out the required monies to buy the analyst’s “opinion and research”?

    That’s a good one that my CIO is going to have to reconsider paying our subscription fees to these research services for “PAID MARKETING”. Me thinks that I have to talk to my Gartner representative regarding getting my subscription fees back.

  70. Peter K Says:

    Minor correction.

    “Analysts get the whole package paid for but press do not as it would be a conflict of interest.” should be “Analysts get the whole package paid for but press do not as it would be a conflict of interest???”.

    That’s for Justin not Vinnie or Michael.

  71. Peter K Says:

    Minor correction.

    “Analysts get the whole package paid for but press do not as it would be a conflict of interest.” should be “Analysts get the whole package paid for but press do not as it would be a conflict of interest???”.

    That’s for Justin not Vinnie or Michael.

  72. Corporate Blogger Relations: SAP vs. Oracle | www.gadgetguy.de - The GadgetGuy Says:

    [...] has a great summary of Oracle’s recent announcement to invite bloggers to OpenWorld. Dennis also has valuable [...]

  73. Jake Says:

    Hey gadgetguy, your comments are borked, so I’m responding here.

    You are wrong about intentions, as far as mine are concerned, and since you reference one of my comments, I want to clarify.

    My personal intentions for inviting bloggers is to get them access to all the customers, partners, employees, executives, etc. OpenWorld is a great place to mingle and hear people’s stories, all of them, not just the case studies.

    That said, I am not in charge of the program, which you should know by reading here. The principals involved in this discussion (Vinnie, Jeff, Michael, Dennis) have been critical, but fair. They understand that change takes time and want to be involved insofar as we invited them to the event/into the discussion.

    I suggest you do the same, or at least jump into the discussion here. And fix your comments.

  74. Jake Says:

    Hey gadgetguy, your comments are borked, so I’m responding here.

    You are wrong about intentions, as far as mine are concerned, and since you reference one of my comments, I want to clarify.

    My personal intentions for inviting bloggers is to get them access to all the customers, partners, employees, executives, etc. OpenWorld is a great place to mingle and hear people’s stories, all of them, not just the case studies.

    That said, I am not in charge of the program, which you should know by reading here. The principals involved in this discussion (Vinnie, Jeff, Michael, Dennis) have been critical, but fair. They understand that change takes time and want to be involved insofar as we invited them to the event/into the discussion.

    I suggest you do the same, or at least jump into the discussion here. And fix your comments.

  75. mkrigsman Says:

    I do agree change takes time, and Oracle has taken a step in the right direction. Usually, the first step is the hardest, so we’ll see what develops in the future.

  76. Michael Krigsman Says:

    I do agree change takes time, and Oracle has taken a step in the right direction. Usually, the first step is the hardest, so we’ll see what develops in the future.

  77. Justin Kestelyn Says:

    Michael/Vinnie – are you guys asking me to fix the entire multi-billion-dollar analyst industry? Sorry, that’s above my pay grade.

  78. Justin Kestelyn Says:

    Michael/Vinnie – are you guys asking me to fix the entire multi-billion-dollar analyst industry? Sorry, that’s above my pay grade.

  79. Justin Kestelyn Says:

    Sorry, I meant Peter/Vinnie.

  80. Justin Kestelyn Says:

    Sorry, I meant Peter/Vinnie.

  81. Marian Crkon Says:

    Being one of “straight-up consultant” bloggers (as Ann Z called us) I was pleased Oracle extended its invites to us “citizen journalists”. I see it as Oracle’s attempt to encourage a broader discussion about its products and services than a small circle of professional journalists and analyst could generate.

    A waived fee is nice, paid travel expenses would be even nicer. Personally, I will still be in red for the week due to lost consulting revenues. I can’t believe we are spending so much time on this issue.

    A bigger question for me is what will attendees get from a mega conference like OOW in return for their investment of time and money? How efficient can 1,600 sessions in five days be to “Learn, Experience and Connect”?

    Oracle speakers always emphasize that conferences are where Oracle “listens to their customers”. It is hardly a two-way discussion. If blogs can provide a constructive feedback and a forum to express opinions to whatever is being presented then the Bloggers at OpenWorld “program” would be a win for everyone. How fair and independent the coverage is is up the blog readers to decide regardless whether Oracle paid for bloggers airfare or not…

  82. Marian Crkon Says:

    Being one of “straight-up consultant” bloggers (as Ann Z called us) I was pleased Oracle extended its invites to us “citizen journalists”. I see it as Oracle’s attempt to encourage a broader discussion about its products and services than a small circle of professional journalists and analyst could generate.

    A waived fee is nice, paid travel expenses would be even nicer. Personally, I will still be in red for the week due to lost consulting revenues. I can’t believe we are spending so much time on this issue.

    A bigger question for me is what will attendees get from a mega conference like OOW in return for their investment of time and money? How efficient can 1,600 sessions in five days be to “Learn, Experience and Connect”?

    Oracle speakers always emphasize that conferences are where Oracle “listens to their customers”. It is hardly a two-way discussion. If blogs can provide a constructive feedback and a forum to express opinions to whatever is being presented then the Bloggers at OpenWorld “program” would be a win for everyone. How fair and independent the coverage is is up the blog readers to decide regardless whether Oracle paid for bloggers airfare or not…

  83. The Feature » Attending the Oracle OpenWorld 2007 Says:

    [...] is my first time at the OOW. Oracle made my decision somewhat easier this time by inviting Oracle bloggers to attend the conference. I appreciate the gesture and the recognition of a vibrant blogging [...]

  84. Enterprise Bloggers, Openness and a Thriving Ecosystem| Zoli’s Blog Says:

    [...] it, not wanting to be part of the “storm in a teacup“, created by  Oracle’s announcement  that they would open up their annual OpenWorld conference to bloggers for the first [...]

  85. The 'Total Disclosure' debate and Oracle OpenWorld | TechBuzz Says:

    [...] to this year’s Oracle OpenWorld Conference that runs November 11 – 15 has sparked quite an animated discussion  in the blogosphere about issues such as: transparency, disclosure, “press” freedom (as bloggers will be [...]

  86. Oracle’s Social Web Debut « GigaOM Says:

    [...] attended the conference in other capacities in the past, this is the first time Oracle (ORCL) has invited bloggers as press to OpenWorld. About 20 bloggers took the company up on its offer; scheduled activities included meeting with the [...]

  87. Tardate 11.1 - Oracle OpenWorld from Afar Says:

    Oracle OpenWorld from Afar…

    [..] I’d like to add my big vote of thanks to the OTN, AppsLab and Oracle bloggers, whose combined efforts really did make this a great (first?) “virtual” OpenWorld [..]…

  88. When bloggers type, people listen « Quoth the Raven Says:

    [...] to their Oracle Openworld conference last year for the first time. The conference is run by the Oracle AppsLab, a “think tank” dedicated to applying Web 2.0 across Oracle’s businesses and [...]

  89. Pawel Barut Says:

    Hi Jake,

    Will be the same policy kept for OOW2008?
    /Paweł

  90. Pawel Barut Says:

    Hi Jake,

    Will be the same policy kept for OOW2008?
    /Paweł

  91. Jake Says:

    @Pawel: The details are being worked out right now, but it sounds like PR will offer the same type of program to bloggers.

  92. Jake Says:

    @Pawel: The details are being worked out right now, but it sounds like PR will offer the same type of program to bloggers.

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